I don't know what Matata's politics are, but these responses are seriously making me question the reading comprehension levels behind some of these replies.
If red team vs. blue team politics prevent people from both teams being able to come together in recognition that people who view others as sub-human trash are the worst regardless of which team's colour they wear, then politics are pretty broken. If people are so divided by political team that they can't agree on such a fundamental statement and position, then liberal political discourse in society is pretty well on the ropes.
Have you been paying attention the last 10 years or so? Politics is on the ropes. Permanently banning social media is a great start to fixing this, but too much money to be made. The instant gratification of social media, combined with the hyper-bubbles it creates, has been devastating to political discourse.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The Following User Says Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
This is not partisan. It’s disingenuous to pretend it is and is just an excuse to get on your high horse and pretend you’re the only person capable of “liberal political discourse”. Johnny and Clay your constant holier than thou posts are getting old. Take an actual stand for something instead of just coming in here talking about how superior your political discourse is compared to everyone else.
This is people who value equality and democracy vs those who don’t.
The fact the majority of those who don’t value equality and democracy identify with a single political party, whose political platform and policies are based on eroding democracy, is not a coincidence.
It’s so unbelievably myopic to call this a partisan issue.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cecil Terwilliger For This Useful Post:
Germans who remained silent as the Nazis did their work were nowhere near as bad as the evil empire they opposed. It’s ignorant to suggest that. Imagine having a family to protect and taking a stand knowing that you’d sent to a gas chamber or shot on the spot.
Germans who remained silent as the Nazis did their work were nowhere near as bad as the evil empire they opposed. It’s ignorant to suggest that. Imagine having a family to protect and taking a stand knowing that you’d sent to a gas chamber or shot on the spot.
They didn’t oppose them. That’s the point. They went along with it because it was convenient and easy. And hey, if getting to take over that Jewish familiy’s business and home is a side benefit, whatever, wasn’t you who murdered them, right?
And yes, I believe as a free citizen it is your responsibility to protect your neighbours in the face of tyranny. But why would you? You elected the tyrants. Maybe you’re not as bad as the people who volunteered to be Nazis but you still voted for the Nazis and you’re still a coward.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 09-19-2020 at 12:11 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Cecil Terwilliger For This Useful Post:
I think many did oppose the Nazi regime but remaining silent was safe. Their opposition wasn’t vocal but for many it was there. However, you’re correct in that most didn’t oppose the Nazis.
I dont think the main problem is the echo chambers, I think the bigger issue is the growing inequality, especially in the red states. The declining quality of healthcare, education, and the overall access to the social ladder has made people desperate. They buy their team's hyperbolic rhetoric that the source of their declining prospects is the POCs, immigrants, and the shadowy liberal elites. They dehumanize those groups, and do nothing as the authorities forcibly remove children from their parents, then parents from their reproductive organs. They blame the victims of violent police encounters, and then celebrate civilians who murder those that speak against it. I think the echo chambers are just more fuel for the fire, including with the rise in people turning away from science and reason and who march against GMOs, climate change action, and vaccines.
The source is inequality, and history is repeating itself.
I dont think the main problem is the echo chambers, I think the bigger issue is the growing inequality, especially in the red states. The declining quality of healthcare, education, and the overall access to the social ladder has made people desperate. They buy their team's hyperbolic rhetoric that the source of their declining prospects is the POCs, immigrants, and the shadowy liberal elites. They dehumanize those groups, and do nothing as the authorities forcibly remove children from their parents, then parents from their reproductive organs. They blame the victims of violent police encounters, and then celebrate civilians who murder those that speak against it. I think the echo chambers are just more fuel for the fire, including with the rise in people turning away from science and reason and who march against GMOs, climate change action, and vaccines.
The source is inequality, and history is repeating itself.
Sure but are establishment Democrats arguing the opposite? Are they making the case to solve these issues? Or are they also just institutionalists?
Progressives make these pleas and are shot down within their own party. So right now everything from the Supreme Court down is an unbalanced seesaw.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Sure but are establishment Democrats arguing the opposite? Are they making the case to solve these issues? Or are they also just institutionalists?
Progressives make these pleas and are shot down within their own party. So right now everything from the Supreme Court down is an unbalanced seesaw.
I think Biden represents someone offering dressing for an infected gaping wound, whereas Trump is offering to continue the bloodletting in hopes it will get rid of the infection.
I think Biden represents someone offering dressing for an infected gaping wound, whereas Trump is offering to continue the bloodletting in hopes it will get rid of the infection.
Republicans don't see it as an infection. These are the rights they're fighting for and they understand what the fight is about and how it has to go through the courts.
The Democrats know it's an infection but are using bandaids. Democrats do not understand the importance of the courts, that's why the court has lurched right.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
If people are so divided by political team that they can't agree on such a fundamental statement and position, then liberal political discourse in society is pretty well on the ropes.
Has been for years.
The issue is, as touched on in that talk, is that this is actually our natural state as human beings. Attempting not to be divided in this manner is fighting against our base instincts. It's an uphill struggle, and more and more people aren't really willing to spend the energy to try to fight against those instincts.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Germans who remained silent as the Nazis did their work were nowhere near as bad as the evil empire they opposed. It’s ignorant to suggest that. Imagine having a family to protect and taking a stand knowing that you’d sent to a gas chamber or shot on the spot.
Nobody is saying that the Good Germans who stood idly by and did nothing to stop Nazism are equally bad as the SS and Gestapo who callously murdered Jews and other so-called "undesirables" by the millions. What we are saying is that by remaining silent against the tyranny of fascism because it was easy and convenient, they are complicit in the crimes of Nazi Germany.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
I will clarify this a little: I didn't necessarily mean people who were merely trying to keep their families safe. I meant more the people in power who did not check the Nazis, and in current times, the Republican senators/representatives/etc who facilitate the misdeeds of Trump, McConnell, etc.
That said, if you can genuinely look at the leadership of the GOP, at the dehumanizing way they speak of women, immigrants, and minorities, at their outright ignorance of science and reality, and still vote for them?
You're still kind of an awful person.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to wittynickname For This Useful Post:
This is not partisan. It’s disingenuous to pretend it is and is just an excuse to get on your high horse and pretend you’re the only person capable of “liberal political discourse”. Johnny and Clay your constant holier than thou posts are getting old. Take an actual stand for something instead of just coming in here talking about how superior your political discourse is compared to everyone else.
This is people who value equality and democracy vs those who don’t.
The fact the majority of those who don’t value equality and democracy identify with a single political party, whose political platform and policies are based on eroding democracy, is not a coincidence.
It’s so unbelievably myopic to call this a partisan issue.
I'm not the one making things partisan. I'm taking a stand for reading comprehension.
Matata wrote this:
Quote:
The worst people in politics aren't democrats or republicans, its people who think their side is virtuous and true and the other side is filled with sub human trash.
According to what Matata wrote, are Nazis the worst? Yes.
Are the KKK the worst? Yes.
Should this be an easy statement to agree with if you value equality and democracy? Yes.
Are people who are implying that Matata's statement shows him to be the equivalent of a Nazi or KKK sympathizer or appeaser attacking him over something he didn't write in that post? Yes.
Re-read what Matata wrote in that post and think again if it's worth getting the pitchforks out over.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
Uhh, hate to break it to you but we are watching a wannabe dictator doing his best to end a democracy (arguably the worlds keystone democracy) and turn it into an authoritarian regime. Or do we have to wait until his fourth term to say we “lived through it”?
But you’re right, let’s feel bad for the republicans “caught up in such circumstances”.
I know when I think of the GOP and trump supporters the first thing I think is “innocent bystanders and survivors”. Not Mexicans in detention camps, forced unwanted medical procedures, black people systematically murdered by police etc. No, no, it’s the GOP who are innocent and survivors.
To the other bolded, I wasn't responding about the people with anything resembling power (in either case), but rather innocent bystanders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
Nobody is saying that the Good Germans who stood idly by and did nothing to stop Nazism are equally bad as the SS and Gestapo who callously murdered Jews and other so-called "undesirables" by the millions. What we are saying is that by remaining silent against the tyranny of fascism because it was easy and convenient, they are complicit in the crimes of Nazi Germany.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Somebody said exactly that in this very thread to kick off this wonderful nazi de-railment.
Many otherwise good people did something really stupid nearly 4 years ago. We'll soon find out if they repeat that stupidity or not. In the meantime, it's the otherwise/supposedly 'good men/women' in the GOP that bear the burden of inaction [or worse] here.
When one side destroys civil liberties, puts people in concentration camps, de-humanizes their opponents, constantly lies, denounces free press, mass sterilizes people and brutalize their citizenry in the name of "law and order" its kind of hard not to think of them as human trash.
Are they "human trash", or are they suffering from severe Stockholm syndrome (as well as other psychological problems), in addition to having been brainwashed by a daily onslaught of disinformation on social media?
__________________
Last edited by Mathgod; 09-19-2020 at 03:11 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Mathgod For This Useful Post:
Does her death make a Dem election win harder? I’m seeing that in my Twitter feed.
It does. I would argue that her death perhaps gives the GOP more tools in the tool box. Status quo is good for the frontrunner (Biden) and any change in news gives the GOP more weapons. For example, McConnell pushing through a nominee next week will upset people that already are not voting for Trump. And it will really make Republicans happy, might turn out the vote more. So possibly a net gain. But let's say Collins blocks this. That could turn a close Senate race back in her favor, for doing the right thing. Or, what if McConnell nominates a female nominee. That could look good for some women who find these things important. The GOP have some decisions to make.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
The Following User Says Thank You to GirlySports For This Useful Post:
Does her death make a Dem election win harder? I’m seeing that in my Twitter feed.
If nothing else, it gives the GOP another chip to play in the lead up to the election. The Dems don't have any control over her replacement, but the GOP can decide who gets picked and when, and can control perceptions based on who they say they are considering, the process they will use etc. Played cleverly, I think it likely does give the GOP another boost.
__________________
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnnyB For This Useful Post:
I don't know what Matata's politics are, but these responses are seriously making me question the reading comprehension levels behind some of these replies.
If red team vs. blue team politics prevent people from both teams being able to come together in recognition that people who view others as sub-human trash are the worst regardless of which team's colour they wear, then politics are pretty broken. If people are so divided by political team that they can't agree on such a fundamental statement and position, then liberal political discourse in society is pretty well on the ropes.
This is pew data from 2017, and I suspect if we found a similar poll today, the results would be even more extreme. Both sides think the other side is subhuman trash - because most people are highly susceptible to propaganda about the other side. This is especially true when combined with a general strong confirmation bias present in most people. In short: the average person takes much more extreme positions now than before. One unfortunate effect of this is that the average person in the Red Camp or the Blue Camp now views moderates as extremists because a moderate position is now also distant from their own. This is quite apparent in this thread (and I would say in this forum in general, which is very left/democrat/progressive).
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BoLevi For This Useful Post:
