Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

While I agree with you on Gaudreau's investment and play this year (Probably the best he has ever looked). He is auditioning for pay raise, pressure is off and he just boosts his value with each passing game it seems like.
Factor in his agent too, his advise would be to test free agency, let the other 31 teams roll out the red carpets, pitches, and $$$'s.
He is having fun because he knows now he will get paid and have the option to sign where he sees fit. Not solely because he loves this city and team.

I honestly believe that the likelihood of him resigning here is less than 20%.

Agree with most of what you said, except a good agent would be telling him that there isn't 31 other teams than can sign him because of their own cap situations, so his realistic group is more like 8-10 and many are bottom feeding teams like Buffalo.

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Agree with most of what you said, except a good agent would be telling him that there isn't 31 other teams than can sign him because of their own cap situations, so his realistic group is more like 8-10 and many are bottom feeding teams like Buffalo.

I agree with you on that. My only counter argument is that teams have started to show the prepotency to acquire contracts and then use LTIR to deal with their drama later or somehow manage to make it all work (vegas, TB, etc.) When a player like Gaudreau becomes available (especially after the year he is having), teams will magically have "cap room". So it may not be all 31 teams but I wouldn't be shocked if 25 teams were lining up for their elevator pitch.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

I agree with you on that. My only counter argument is that teams have started to show the prepotency to acquire contracts and then use LTIR to deal with their drama later or somehow manage to make it all work (vegas, TB, etc.) When a player like Gaudreau becomes available (especially after the year he is having), teams will magically have "cap room". So it may not be all 31 teams but I wouldn't be shocked if 25 teams were lining up for their elevator pitch.

LTIR just can't be used to hide contracts. The players need to have an actual injury proven with medical information. And speaking of Vegas, when Eichel is deemed fit to play they have to move $10M in contracts. Next season they are already over the cap with 10 players to sign so more people will need to move on so I wouldn't want to have their issues moving forward.

I guess Johnny could look at Jersey to be closer to home, but they only have $23M next season with 12 players to sign and if Johnny takes up $10M of that space they are filling in with guys like Ritchie, Richardson etc.

It will be interesting as it plays out.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

So why are our young star players unwilling to sign here long term? Could it be they don’t believe in the GM who has had five head coaches (hired four) in eight years?

When Andrew Mangiapane won’t sign long term, that’s telling.

Who said they don't want to sign long-term?

I wasn't suggesting that Mangiapane won't sign long-term, I was suggesting that a long-term contract, 2 years ago, wasn't in his best interests. And that has borne out.

Your insinuation that the past coaching record is some sort of hindrance, is ridiculous. Players want to get paid, and they want an opportunity to succeed. Mangiapane might care that Sutter is the coach, and that might influence his desire to sign here. But whoever the coach was 3 years ago is completely irrelevant.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

So why are our young star players unwilling to sign here long term? Could it be they don’t believe in the GM who has had five head coaches (hired four) in eight years?

When Andrew Mangiapane won’t sign long term, that’s telling.

Increasingly players are betting on themselves and then cashing in on big years.
Not everything is the GM's fault.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not everything is the GM's fault.

Well, obviously.

Unless the GM is Brad Treliving. Then everything is his fault and then some, because narrative.

[Mr.Coffee]

I think signing Gaudreau now will be a huge mistake. Let someone else sign him. It’s a contract year and he will not perform like this ever again.

[Lanny_McDonald]

So let the best asset on the team walk for nothing? Bold strategy Cotton.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think signing Gaudreau now will be a huge mistake. Let someone else sign him. It’s a contract year and he will not perform like this ever again.

So how do you propose the team moves forward loosing (arguably) their only elite talent?

Unless the answer is burn it to the ground. In which case he should have been traded with most our other players in the off season

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by browntrout

What an absolute crap answer, based upon complete inaccuracies to support your narrative that our GM is crappy at his job.

This team has over 31 million in cap space next year, no buyouts counting against the cap and 3 draft picks in the first 2 rounds. Tkachuk and Mangiapane are RFA's. Tkachuk can be qualified at 9, Mangiapane has some arbitration rights, but not has much bargaining power as a UFA. The following year Monahan and Lucic come off the books.

If and that's a big if because I don't see the team needing to they could buyout a player.

Further more in two years Backlund comes off the books, leaving more money for a Lindholm signing.

Tampa which won the cup the last two years, even had to trade good players away because of a cap crunch, does that mean their GM sucks.

Support an argument with facts

Sure, Tkachuk can be qualified at $9M as you’d say, but than he’d become an unrestricted free agent after one more season. What kind of asset management would that be? Mangiapane is on pace for nearly 40 goals and Kylington leads the team’s defensemen in goals, points and plus/minus.

These guys are all going to get paid and with whatever little cap space that remains, 7 to 8 more players will still need to be signed to fill out the rest of the roster. A buyout could end up being a necessity just to fill the team with league minimum hockey players. Then how does this team improve from what they currently are if that’s the case?

Lastly, I’m not even sure why you’re using Tampa as an example. They won 2 straight Stanley Cups! The Flames in comparison missed the playoffs last season. Of course Tampa lost players, just like Chicago did, because this league is cyclical. Success costs you more money because other teams will want your players, it’s basic supply and demand.

It’s absolute foolishness to compare the Flames and Lightning. They’ve won 15 playoff rounds over the last 5 or so years. We’re just trying to get in to the playoffs to win 1. We’re not even in the same league in terms of success.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Lastly, I’m not even sure why you’re using Tampa as an example. They won 2 straight Stanley Cups! The Flames in comparison missed the playoffs last season. Of course Tampa lost players, just like Chicago did, because this league is cyclical. Success costs you more money because other teams will want your players, it’s basic supply and demand.

Tampa is just one of 16 teams that are over the cap this season. Half the league is in cap jail and relying on either LTIR or ‘non-roster players’ to remain compliant. And they all want to shed salary – which is why the only significant hockey trade this season involved players on LTIR.

How many of those 16 teams won two straight Stanley Cups the last two seasons? I'll let you figure it out.

Teams aren't having cap trouble because the league is cyclical. They're having cap trouble because two straight years of a global pandemic have thrown everyone's projections out of whack, and the league has frozen the cap at pre-pandemic levels. It's happening to everybody.

But hey, clearly it's only the unique incompetence of Brad Treliving, the Dumbest Man in the Universe, that put the Flames and only the Flames in the same boat as everyone else. Yup, an unusually dim houseplant could do a better job of navigating the crisis that has the whole league in trouble.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To the bold, the players have to actually be willing to sign those deals. If you were Mangiapane, would you have signed a long term deal at a low AAV, or would you rather bet on yourself?

As to the second paragraph, only a fool thinks the GMs aren't planning for all contingencies going forward. Even so, no one can predict what the future holds, and criticizing others in retrospect, is pretty weak.

Some contracts work out great, and others you wish you did differently. Suggesting the GM 'didn't foresee' how it would play out is empty hindsight.

If I was Andrew Mangiapane back in 2020, I’m absolutely taking a long term deal because at the time, I was a 6th round pick that had just played my first full NHL season without any time in the minors. For me, I thought it was a great time for the Flames to get him on a decently priced long term deal. He had 30 goal scorer written all over him.

I think it’s very fair to look at everything that a GM does and doesn’t do. It’s not always the big obvious screwups that should be critiqued. Sometimes it’s subtle ones too, they all count because it contributes to the overall body of work.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

So let the best asset on the team walk for nothing? Bold strategy Cotton.

Haha I know, I hear you. I guess it depends on what is realistically available.

I just think an 8 year deal at a high AAV will see 8 years following this of about 30-40% effort, like Backlund. Maybe even less. The GAF meter will be very, very low and the player very, very complacent. So with that in mind maybe it is better to get nothing for the asset and not tie up so much cap space in a floating anchor, while at the same time still using his amazing effort that will carry out this year and hopefully get Calgary deep in the playoffs. I dunno.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

So how do you propose the team moves forward loosing (arguably) their only elite talent?

Unless the answer is burn it to the ground. In which case he should have been traded with most our other players in the off season

You commit to the rebuild in the summer but you simply lose Gaudreau for nothing. You’d still have a ton of cap room that would otherwise deployed for listless effort. Like let’s be real here, he’s playing like this because it is a contract year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If I was Andrew Mangiapane back in 2020, I’m absolutely taking a long term deal because at the time, I was a 6th round pick that had just played my first full NHL season without any time in the minors. For me, I thought it was a great time for the Flames to get him on a decently priced long term deal. He had 30 goal scorer written all over him.

Why on earth would you think he was motivated to take a cheap long-term deal when even you could see he was a future 30-goal scorer? He knew perfectly well what he was capable of. That's why he didn't want a long-term deal.

Oh, right, I forgot. It's because Brad Treliving is the Dumbest Human in the Universe, and whatever he does is automatically wrong. Carry on.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I just think an 8 year deal at a high AAV will see 8 years following this of about 30-40% effort, like Backlund.

If you think Backlund has been giving 30-40% effort, you're a fool.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Tampa is just one of 16 teams that are over the cap this season. Half the league is in cap jail and relying on either LTIR or ‘non-roster players’ to remain compliant. And they all want to shed salary – which is why the only significant hockey trade this season involved players on LTIR.

How many of those 16 teams won two straight Stanley Cups the last two seasons? I'll let you figure it out.

Teams aren't having cap trouble because the league is cyclical. They're having cap trouble because two straight years of a global pandemic have thrown everyone's projections out of whack, and the league has frozen the cap at pre-pandemic levels. It's happening to everybody.

But hey, clearly it's only the unique incompetence of Brad Treliving, the Dumbest Man in the Universe, that put the Flames and only the Flames in the same boat as everyone else. Yup, an unusually dim houseplant could do a better job of navigating the crisis that has the whole league in trouble.

Dude, what’s your problem? Enough already with the overblown reactions and ridiculous exaggeration of everything constantly. Where at any point did I say he was “the dumbest man in the universe?” I even went out my way to say he does good things as a GM, but that I also have very specific critiques that I have of the job he’s done. These aren’t a bunch of drive by shots here just to take it to the man, it’s stuff I’ve been talking about for years here.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Why on earth would you think he was motivated to take a cheap long-term deal when even you could see he was a future 30-goal scorer? He knew perfectly well what he was capable of. That's why he didn't want a long-term deal.

Oh, right, I forgot. It's because Brad Treliving is the Dumbest Human in the Universe, and whatever he does is automatically wrong. Carry on.



If you think Backlund has been giving 30-40% effort, you're a fool.

Dude you’re not even worth the effort. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Dude, what’s your problem?

At the moment, you're my problem.

Enough already with the overblown reactions and ridiculous exaggeration of everything constantly.

Clearly the only posts of mine that you read are the ones replying to you and your endless crusade against Brad Treliving and the Calgary Flames.

Where at any point did I say he was “the dumbest man in the universe?”

You criticize pretty much everything he does, and strongly imply that it's only the Flames who do such stupid things… even when most teams in the league do the same things.

I even went out my way to say he does good things as a GM, but that I also have very specific critiques that I have of the job he’s done.

Your ‘very specific critiques’ usually involve the application of 20/20 hindsight to decisions whose outcome nobody could have foreseen. GMs don't play 4D chess with the cap five years ahead, they really don't. But you fault Treliving, and only Treliving, because he doesn't do something that is, in fact, intrinsically impossible.

These aren’t a bunch of drive by shots here just to take it to the man, it’s stuff I’ve been talking about for years here.

Yes, I know. It's your stock in trade to go on about it. And on and on and on and on and on…

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If you think Backlund has been giving 30-40% effort, you're a fool.

Too high a %?

I’ll give you the last 10 days, sure he’s been great actually. The other 36 games? I walk to my work in the basement with more pep in the step.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Too high a %?

Ah. Flippancy.

I’ll give you the last 10 days, sure he’s been great actually. The other 36 games? I walk to my work in the basement with more pep in the step.

Flippancy again.

I quite like C. S. Lewis's definition of flippancy. He says it is assuming that a joke has already been made, so that all you have to do is act as if the subject at hand were already known to be ridiculous. It saves the effort of actually trying to make a joke; and also lets the perpetrator have a cheap laugh even when the subject is not ridiculous and there is no joke to be made.

Do you really believe that Backlund, or any other professional athlete, simply sits back and does nothing while watching his team lose games, when he could simply turn on a switch and perform two or three times better?

Nobody performs at 100% of peak capacity all day, every day. We all have our ups and downs; we all have rhythms and oscillations. All of us, in every field. But for some reason, some people expect professional athletes (but nobody else) to perform at their absolute peak in every single competition.

Backlund has a long history of starting seasons slowly and improving as he goes along. I don't know why; neither do you. But it is certainly not because he spends every October through January dogging it.