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Old 01-31-2022, 08:13 PM   #1101
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Now to Treliving's competence and the defense you've built up. If Treliving were one of these really smart guys who saw this incredible explosion in scoring, why didn't he push harder to get the deal done prior to the execution of the NTC? He should have recognized that he was in a position of strength and then get the player on the cheap to a long-term deal. For some reason he didn't do that, nor show much urgency to get the deal done prior to the imposition of the NTC. Seems to indicate he was looking for another low scoring season to drive the contract value down? That would be the only explanation for giving up all control the team had in negotiations? I don't know how or why a GM would do what Treliving did - surrendering the only leverage and control the team had - and then think it was the competent move. Because if he saw this season coming, and surrendered the only control the team had, he just cost the team another $2-3M a season. How do you explain this?
Why do you think Gaudreau would want to give up his leverage and sign a low deal after a down year? He likely was betting on a good contract year (or at least a better year) with the leverage of an NTC to protect him. You don't just force a guy to sign a deal...If Johnny didn't want to sign after a bad year, you aren't getting a deal done.
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Old 01-31-2022, 11:10 PM   #1102
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Just hilarious how long a topic can drag on with zero information about the topic whatsoever.

Treliving could have offered Gaudreau the moon and he refused to sign no matter how high the offer got.
Treliving could have nickel and dimed the player and was told to go to hell.
Treliving could have completely forgotten that Gaudreau is up because he's too busy playing mindcraft every day in his office.

But without knowing what was offered and countered from both sides it's just silly to try and suggest the GM knows what he's doing or has completely botched it.
That’s why this is a discussion board, and why there are rumour threads. And why the basis of this entire website you made is to launch opinions and discuss and debate.

Nobody knows anything about anything. This is true. Time to close up CP then?
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Old 01-31-2022, 11:51 PM   #1103
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That’s why this is a discussion board, and why there are rumour threads. And why the basis of this entire website you made is to launch opinions and discuss and debate.

Nobody knows anything about anything. This is true. Time to close up CP then?
It’s not so much that people are making guesses and giving opinions. They are stating, as a fact, that Treliving did or didn’t do this or that. Or could have don this or that. It’s usually narrative based.
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Old 02-01-2022, 07:09 AM   #1104
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That’s why this is a discussion board, and why there are rumour threads. And why the basis of this entire website you made is to launch opinions and discuss and debate.

Nobody knows anything about anything. This is true. Time to close up CP then?
I thought that was a very bizarre post by Bingo myself.

Johnny and Chucky’s future with the team is the biggest issue that hangs over this organization. If these guys decide to move on which both can do easily then this team is done and it is time to rebuild. If both decide to sign long term deals than this team is in it to win it for the next several seasons.

I don’t find it funny at all that this thread has dragged out regardless of the information because it is the most critical crossroads this team will face in a decade.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:10 AM   #1105
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It’s not so much that people are making guesses and giving opinions. They are stating, as a fact, that Treliving did or didn’t do this or that. Or could have don this or that. It’s usually narrative based.
You and TOFan keep saying this over and over. Yet I go back several pages and can't find these statements of fact that you keep vaguely referencing.

If you have an issue with a specific statement, maybe quote it once to make your point. At this point, the two of you are refuting this far more often than anyone is claiming it.

Now if people are suggesting what Treliving could have done, that is just fine IMO. That's not a statement of fact. Neither you nor I know what was available to him so what's wrong with offering these hypotheticals for discussion?
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:20 AM   #1106
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Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc View Post
Why do you think Gaudreau would want to give up his leverage and sign a low deal after a down year? He likely was betting on a good contract year (or at least a better year) with the leverage of an NTC to protect him. You don't just force a guy to sign a deal...If Johnny didn't want to sign after a bad year, you aren't getting a deal done.
For me this points to an obvious situation where the GM likely wasn't pushing hard for a deal as the OP suggests and/or the player simply wants out unless they get maximum value. I highly doubt Guadreau was turning down a long term $7Mish AAV deal last year, which even at the rate he was producing was probably fair for both sides. Now not so much.

Constantly running this team up against the cap, needing to steal from Peter to pay Paul so to speak is only sustainable for so long and now it's time to pay the piper. Unless he's got some serious wizardry up his sleeve, this team could potentially be in ruins without 2 of it's best players in town beyond this year. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of what this team looks like without either.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:23 AM   #1107
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I highly doubt Guadreau was turning down a long term $7Mish AAV deal last year, which even at the rate he was producing was probably fair for both sides. Now not so much.
Highly doubt?

I highly doubt he would sign such a deal last year. Players typically bet on themselves.

But I really have no idea, same as you.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:26 AM   #1108
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Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc View Post
Why do you think Gaudreau would want to give up his leverage and sign a low deal after a down year? He likely was betting on a good contract year (or at least a better year) with the leverage of an NTC to protect him. You don't just force a guy to sign a deal...If Johnny didn't want to sign after a bad year, you aren't getting a deal done.
This isn’t about Gaureau, and his decision, this is about Treliving and his protecting the team from potentially losing a valuable asset for nothing. There should have been a line in the sand and some clearly define action to protect the team. This was talked about or a year prior to the NTC kicking in. That mechanism hurts the team and the potential to recoup the best package possible. Gaudreau’s desire is irrelevant. This was a management decision in relation to a restrictive clause in an existing contract.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:29 AM   #1109
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For me this points to an obvious situation where the GM likely wasn't pushing hard for a deal as the OP suggests and/or the player simply wants out unless they get maximum value. I highly doubt Guadreau was turning down a long term $7Mish AAV deal last year, which even at the rate he was producing was probably fair for both sides. Now not so much.

Constantly running this team up against the cap, needing to steal from Peter to pay Paul so to speak is only sustainable for so long and now it's time to pay the piper. Unless he's got some serious wizardry up his sleeve, this team could potentially be in ruins without 2 of it's best players in town beyond this year. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of what this team looks like without either.
I wouldn’t say this is high doubt. Why not? If he thinks he can be a $10M player, why not bet on himself after a bad year? Especially if he can be a $10M player wherever he wants.

There’s also a possibility he was being lowballed/met with hesitation from the Flames side due to the lack of solid playoff performances. There was much from fans too, many vocal people wanting to move away from the Gaudreau/Monahan days completely. A lot was in the air this summer, and I have no doubt the attempt to bring in Eichel has a lot to do with it. I’m guessing if Eichel landed here, Gaudreau signs pretty soon after. By the time all that shook out both sides maybe decided a wait and see approach.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:39 AM   #1110
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Highly doubt?

I highly doubt he would sign such a deal last year. Players typically bet on themselves.

But I really have no idea, same as you.
I do highly doubt that many players would walk from a lucrative long term deal, provided any offer was in fact, fair value and provided they actually want to stay.

This is my opinion as much as yours is yours. To say they "typically bet on themselves", you'd need a pretty extensive list of youngish top line pending UFA talent to make that case. Personally, I don't see a long enough list of players in Gaudreau's situation who mean so much to a team, that walk to UFA very often to make that claim one way or the other....But maybe I'm missing something?

It's all moot anyway as the team may now lose the player for nothing more than pennies on the dollar if they're unable to come to terms. Bad asset management, if not terrible when you consider how critical the player is to the team's success.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:47 AM   #1111
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If someone put a gun to your head right now and forced you to make a prediction on if Johnny will sign or not, what would you say?
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:10 AM   #1112
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If someone put a gun to your head right now and forced you to make a prediction on if Johnny will sign or not, what would you say?
He will sign, that one is easy for me.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:13 AM   #1113
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Gun to head - johnny will be a Flyer next year
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:23 AM   #1114
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If someone put a gun to your head right now and forced you to make a prediction on if Johnny will sign or not, what would you say?
He, unfortunately, will not be a Flame next year.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:26 AM   #1115
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Gun to head - johnny will be a Flyer next year
Well Francis is sure trying to push that on Flames Talk last Friday. Johnny will walk for nothing, Tkachuk is going to walk for nothing, both don't want to really be here. Team might not even be here down the road. Just his typical try to drive our superstars out of town. I have no idea why the Flames organization do not just blackball him from anything to do with the team.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:28 AM   #1116
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He, unfortunately, will not be a Flame next year.
You don't think BT doesn't know if Johnny walks for nothing he also gets his walking papers? If he has to overpay him to get it done he will because he doesn't have a job if he doesn't.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:32 AM   #1117
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You and TOFan keep saying this over and over. Yet I go back several pages and can't find these statements of fact that you keep vaguely referencing.

If you have an issue with a specific statement, maybe quote it once to make your point. At this point, the two of you are refuting this far more often than anyone is claiming it.

Now if people are suggesting what Treliving could have done, that is just fine IMO. That's not a statement of fact. Neither you nor I know what was available to him so what's wrong with offering these hypotheticals for discussion?
I point out the specific statements all the time. And they aren’t hypotheticals. They are statements of certainty.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:40 AM   #1118
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You don't think BT doesn't know if Johnny walks for nothing he also gets his walking papers? If he has to overpay him to get it done he will because he doesn't have a job if he doesn't.
It was just my gun to the head answer. If Johnny wants to walk, there is absolutely nothing Treliving can do at this point. My guess is the player can get very similar money wherever he wants. The only carrot is the 8th year.

I also think Treliving knows he's been on thin ice for 2 years and the only thing that's kept him in his job is covid. A first round loss this year and he doesn't even get a chance to try sign Johnny.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:42 AM   #1119
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Well Francis is sure trying to push that on Flames Talk last Friday. Johnny will walk for nothing, Tkachuk is going to walk for nothing, both don't want to really be here. Team might not even be here down the road. Just his typical try to drive our superstars out of town. I have no idea why the Flames organization do not just blackball him from anything to do with the team.
My reaction is more towards the Flyers GM stating the bank will be open in the off season - pretty close to tampering imo. I never listen to anything Francis says
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:44 AM   #1120
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If someone put a gun to your head right now and forced you to make a prediction on if Johnny will sign or not, what would you say?
He's gonzo. The fact that there hasn't been a mention of even talking is a bad sign.
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