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Old 10-28-2017, 12:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by savardandjokinen View Post
Give me 2 examples of how he's trading away skilled players for slugs
I can think of maybe one example although I'd hesitate before calling Shinkaruk a "slug".
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:15 PM   #42
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This will be a fun thread to revisit in five months when we're preparing for the playoffs.

What's the expression, you can't make the playoffs in October but you can miss them?

The Flames are Not Missing the playoffs this month. They'll figure it out.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
He has made some good moves but has made it quite clear we are in win now mode and has failed miserably IMO.

Waiving Byron to start when he was a great energy guy and a great PKer whose motor didn't quit.
Apart from speed Byron didn't really offer much to the Flames during his time here. I liked the guy and thought he filled a role, but that role is one that is easily replaceable in the league. The guy was not a finisher in Calgary, but he managed to get over that hump in Montreal. Didn't really make or break the Canadiens, though.

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Signing Grossman after he had an awful pre season.
Grossman actually had a pretty average pre-season, and he signed him for depth. Didn't work out as he had hoped, and the experiment was quickly over...almost before it even had a chance to begin.

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Signing Glass when a much better player in Hathaway was on the team already.
This is where the sarcastic "earned, never given" crowd tend to lose me. Nobody stepped up better in their role during pre-season than Tanner Glass. Personally, I felt it would be best to project long-term over a guy that played his ass off to earn a contract. I would prefer Hathaway to fill that spot, but it's not like Glass floated his way to a deal. Guy earned it.

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Brouwer signing.
I'm giving you this one. Even though I thought it was an over-payment, I supported the signing at the time because I thought Brouwer would be the heart & soul playoff difference maker on a perennial contender. Troy has regressed significantly and carries a lengthy anchor of a contract. This is magnified by the fact the Flames seem to be more pretender than contender right now.

To me, this has been Treliving's biggest mistake.

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I like Hamonic and think he has fit in well but he paid a really heavy price to get him. Don't see a huge difference between Hamonic and Engelland. Three quality draft picks is nothing to sneeze at.
11 games. That's Hamonic's sample size as a Flame. He was highly coveted coming out of New York. Kind of like Hamilton, and we all saw how quickly the knives came out in a small sample size with him. Teams dream of having top 4-5 depth like the Flames do right now. The draft picks are more relative to team performance than the player with this one, which has been a huge issue. And at this point that isn't at Hamonic's feet, who I believe has been as expected.

And just my opinion, but the bolded hyperbole is where people have a disconnect with some of the things you post. Hamonic offers an entirely different dimension on the ice than Engelland, and I think it's been quite noticeable even in the extremely limited sample size.

It took Hamilton 20-25 games to adapt. I think once Hamonic finds his groove it will be better for Brodie and the team as a whole.

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Keeping Stajan in the NHL. He's a great guy and teammate and great in the community but should be either sitting out 90% of the games or should have been put on waivers and bought out.
This is where it becomes much more complicated than numbers. Stajan is respected in the dressing room and the community. Also, he's an average 4th liner that is being placed in situations he is not fit for. That's on the coach. Who else in the system is better suited to a PROPER 4th line role on this team?

Sending him down doesn't actually make the team better, because you're slotting in a worse player in that role or wasting development on a guy like Jankowski. It doesn't save them much cap space, and I don't think the owners want to pay Stajan his salary to play in Stockton. Buying him out isn't a better option either as they will be paying a ghost for 2 years instead of one.

Treliving is kind of handcuffed with this one, but I think it's more on the coach not doing the right things with the right players.

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I'm sure many more questionable moves are slipping my mind as well but imo he has made more bad moves than good and is extremely overrated in the same way Feaster was early on.
If you can't think of them they probably aren't as concerning as you're making them out to be. However, I'll give you one...current coaching staff. Jury is still out on this one, but IMO it's not looking good.

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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
Ok, start off with the top 5 things that you think Treliving has done as GM.

If you're so passionate about him doing a fantastic job, this should be easy.
I'll give it a shot:

1. Hamilton trade. Absolute steal for a guy that is easily a top 2 defenseman, and will be for a long time. He's big, can skate, and puts up points. He has gotten better every year he's played with the flaming C on his chest.

2. Monahan contract. The highest scoring player in his draft year and the #1 center signed to a fair market contract. That's rarer than it should be in this league.

3. Gaudreau contract. Same as above, with a few words switched around.

4. TJ Brodie contract. Actually below value contract for a top 4 defenseman. I believe that Brodie's shortcomings have been overblown this season. He's still doing the things he's always done, just under a different (and struggling) system.

5. Smith trade. I'm hesitant to include this as, again, we've seen him in 10 games so far. Still, the guy has been an MVP caliber player, and he provides excellent compete and goaltending until Gillies or Parsons is ready.

Honorable mentions: Willing to trade Glencross in a competing year and receive good returns. Ryan Huska hire. Revamped drafting philosophy.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:19 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
This will be a fun thread to revisit in five months when we're preparing for the playoffs.

What's the expression, you can't make the playoffs in October but you can miss them?

The Flames are Not Missing the playoffs this month. They'll figure it out.
This has nothing to do with how the Flames are doing and even if they make the playoffs which I have no doubt that they easily will. His bad moves don't get erased.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
This has nothing to do with how the Flames are doing and even if they make the playoffs which I have no doubt that they easily will. His bad moves don't get erased.
But if the moves pay off and are successful are they still bad?
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:37 PM   #46
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Fire everyone !
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:42 PM   #47
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Other honorable mentions for Treliving IMO are:

1. The Mason Raymond buyout. This might seem stupid in hind sight, but that's a huge victory in terms of what we know of ownership.

2. Treliving's rumored autonomy vs Ken King. Again, a bit under the radar and it's more rumor than anything, but this possibly keeps the meddling to a minimum.

3. Asset value. Burke was probably on this starting from the Cammellari non-trade. But the Baertschi trade was an interesting example of this. Tre derived the best value out of Barts to Vancouver which probably meant Bart's value was ridiculously low elsewhere. The value Treliving derived out of Hudler, Russell, GlenX and even minor increases in value like the 6th in the Backstrom/Jones trade are good.

4. Limited damage of his "worst moves". Many other GMs are too proud to fix certain things. Not Tre.
- Mason Raymond and Bouma buy out
- Elliott/Johnson experiment rather than try and see if he bounces back
- Bollig waiving
- The long list of non-qualified prospects
(Jury is still out on Brouwer)

5. Sticks to his guns on contracts. This is contentious because not all contracts were strong armed, but consider this:
- Strong armed Byron. Byron's long term contract was 1.1 mil
- Was weak on Bouma. Buy out. (See also May Ray and Brouwer) His greatest errors IMO.
- Strong armed Gaudreau and Gio (Good).
- Colborne out (Good).


Tre isn't perfect, but IMO I don't feel bad having him at the helm.

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Old 10-28-2017, 12:51 PM   #48
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I like what he has built for thew most part, I do not like what I am seeing on the ice and the results speak for them selves. GG is more under pressure then Brad as of now. I would give it a few weeks and we will see where this team is. Dave Tippet is still out there . . . .
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:56 PM   #49
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I like Treliving. Calling for his dismissal makes no sense, but I'm also not on board with the "wizard" crowd. He has shown he is willing to pay a high price for middle roster players and the strategy of controlling play through the defense corps needs to show it can work.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savardandjokinen View Post
Give me 2 examples of how he's trading away skilled players for slugs
Why should I do that?
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:10 PM   #51
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:14 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
He has made some good moves but has made it quite clear we are in win now mode and has failed miserably IMO.

Waiving Byron to start when he was a great energy guy and a great PKer whose motor didn't quit.

Signing Grossman after he had an awful pre season.

Signing Glass when a much better player in Hathaway was on the team already.

Brouwer signing.

I like Hamonic and think he has fit in well but he paid a really heavy price to get him. Don't see a huge difference between Hamonic and Engelland. Three quality draft picks is nothing to sneeze at.

Keeping Stajan in the NHL. He's a great guy and teammate and great in the community but should be either sitting out 90% of the games or should have been put on waivers and bought out.

I'm sure many more questionable moves are slipping my mind as well but imo he has made more bad moves than good and is extremely overrated in the same way Feaster was early on.
Haha.

Everything you've listed is so inconsequential when you weigh them against the good he's done. Looking at his complete body of work reveals a GM that had continued to improve the roster year over year. The paper roster not translating on the ice is one thing, but that's not what you're saying here...
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:15 PM   #53
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Has there ever been a GM that didn’t have a couple of questionable moves?

Stupid thread is stupid.

When will you be starting the Stajan, Brouwer, Glass, Lazar, Bennett, Hamilton need to start feeling the heat threads?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:28 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions View Post
Why should I do that?
To prove what you said before. You literally said Tre traded skilled players for slugs and can't back it up
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by savardandjokinen View Post
To prove what you said before. You literally said Tre traded skilled players for slugs and can't back it up
I never said that.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:43 PM   #56
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Of course he's feeling the heat. He traded the 1st and 2nd rounders to make this team. If they are just a playoff bubble team or first round fodder, he looks like a gm who miscalculates the talent level of his team/coaching.

Now, does he deserve to is the real question. I know most of us thought the team looked pretty set for a steady improvement over last year going into the season.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:50 PM   #57
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Start the rebuild.
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
In other words you have nothing to say.

I'm still waiting for a list of the top 5 good things Treliving has done.

I'll even give you the first one.

1. Mike Smith
1. Dougie Hamilton for 3 picks. Flames snagged a 22 year old Dman coming off 40pts and has since scored 43 and 50 points playing on the top pair. Best Flames trade since Kipper (who was an unknown so this may be the best Flames fleecing of all time)

2. Deadline sell off. Glencross helped add the picks to get Hamilton. Hucker and Russell netted the picks that turned into Dube and Parsons.

3. Chad Johnson- proven local backup with a history of a larger than average workload for a backup. Flames acquiring 1a goalie Brian Elliott with intentions of becoming a full time number one Treliving was still smart to acquire a backup capable of taking over which Johnson did and saved the Flames season.

4. Deryk Engellend- a contract that was immediately planned by everyone turned out to be soood value. Engelland was a great teammate and filled the role of heavyweight perfectly taking on anyone from Iginla to Lucic.

5. Frolik- highly coveted free agent decides to come to Calgary at a fair market rate and reasonable term for a 27 year old. Has played with Backlund forming 2/3 of our 2nd line that plays excellent 200ft hockey. Great veteran tops the team in fitness training.

6. Long term extensions. The Flames don’t have a single player making $7M or more on the cap. Signing Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Giordano to long term team friendly contracts has allowed Treliving to add via trade and free agency every summer.

7. Versteeg- solid top nine winger for 2 years at great money.

Remains to be seen

Mike Smith - looks fantastic so far but would be silly to have a definitive answer after 10 games played

Travis Hamonic- He has been decent so far but a lot of how this deal shakes out will determine where the Flames finish the season and the picks end up
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:23 PM   #59
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Tre has done well with trades with Hamilton and Hamonic, and negotiating great contracts with Gaudreau, Monahan and Brodie. Grossman was able to get out of his contract to play in Europe so that saved Tre on bad signings.

Putting the best team on the ice should not include Brouwer, Stajan, Glass, and Bartkowski. It should not include an attempt in trying to convert a winger into a center. Also, don't trade small forwards who can play and contribute to other team and get players in return who can't play here.
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:30 PM   #60
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I'm... I mean, I just... You see....

I'm tired of this $#!@
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