Tiger Woods in a car crash.

[skudr248]

Lance Armstrong got into a car crash?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

you'll have to explain that one, I cant see any what about in it

You're whole argument is "Lance used PEDs, but what about everyone else who also used PEDs?"

That's whataboutism. It's very similar to the "yeah we're not cutting our carbon emissions, but what about all the other countries that aren't cutting carbon emissions either?" argument that countries around the world keep using to justify their feet dragging.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You're whole argument is "Lance used PEDs, but what about everyone else who also used PEDs?"

That's whataboutism. It's very similar to the "yeah we're not cutting our carbon emissions, but what about all the other countries that aren't cutting carbon emissions either?" argument that countries around the world keep using to justify their feet dragging.

No, my argument is every team used PED's, all of their riders were caught at various times, most of them have admitted it, but only one rider has had his records expunged.

Bjarne Riis, tour winner 1996, On 25 May 2007, he admitted that he placed first in the Tour de France using banned substances, and he was no longer considered the winner by the Tour's organizers. In July 2008, the Tour reconfirmed his victory but with an asterisk label to indicate his doping offences.

Jan Ulrich, Tour winner 1997, went on record stating that he'd "always said that Lance wouldn't get out of it. He made too many enemies." Later that month, he admitted that he doped with the help of Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. His name was on the list of doping tests published by the French Senate on 24 July 2013 that were collected during the 1998 Tour de France and found positive for EPO when retested in 2004. Ulrich has admitted to doping throughout his career.

A French senate report into doping released in July 2013 confirmed that Marco Pantani (Tour winner 1998) had tested positive for EPO during retroactive testing of samples from the 1998 Tour de France conducted in 2004, Pantani, 'the pirate' subsequently died of a cocaine induced heart attack in 2004 age 34.

Armstrong is the only rider to have his records expunged of all of the know and admitted dopers in his (and every other generation) of pro cycling, there isnt any whataboutery as I am making direct comparisons with other riders who have been busted and admitted exactly the same behaviour, whataboutery is when you compare two actions that are vaguely similer, these are all identical.

[timun]

Don't forget Floyd Landis was stripped of his title, Alberto Contador too. Lance was not the only one punished.

Lance got punished harder than anyone else because he won more than anyone else, made more money than anyone else doing so under these false pretences, and used the power and influence that money bought to vociferously discredit anyone who insinuated he was a doper. He's a sociopathic narcissist who tried to ruin the lives of anyone who dared oppose him: that is why the punishment was so harsh.

[afc wimbledon]

Contador had one of his three Tours taken, Landis I will give you, frankly Landis got screwed because the Cycling authorities considered him a rat, the main difference between Contador Landis and Armstrong though was Landis and Contador had their titles stripped from the races they had tested positive on, Armstrong had all his titles stripped even though he famously didnt test positive for much of anything, and nothing that could be conclusively tied to any of the Tours he won, now I am not going to argue he wasnt doped to the gills, they all were, but his contempories have been given a pass, he hasnt, personally I think that's unfair

[Dion]

How did this thread go from Tiger Woods to Lance Armstrong?

Last time I looked Armstrong was riding bikes and not driving an SUV

[GGG]

Originally Posted by timun

Don't forget Floyd Landis was stripped of his title, Alberto Contador too. Lance was not the only one punished.

Lance got punished harder than anyone else because he won more than anyone else, made more money than anyone else doing so under these false pretences, and used the power and influence that money bought to vociferously discredit anyone who insinuated he was a doper. He's a sociopathic narcissist who tried to ruin the lives of anyone who dared oppose him: that is why the punishment was so harsh.

Landis’ steroid fueled ride to come back in the tour is still one of the greatest things to watch in cycling even though is was drug aided.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GGG

Landis’ steroid fueled ride to come back in the tour is still one of the greatest things to watch in cycling even though is was drug aided.

Cycling was so much more interesting, I think it was Sean Kelly riding with a broken collarbone for two weeks I will always remember, the combination of opiods and stimulants that allowed that would kill us mortals

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by Dion

How did this thread go from Tiger Woods to Lance Armstrong?

Last time I looked Armstrong was riding bikes and not driving an SUV

Tiger probably knows someone who has a bike, and is a known substance abuser

Armstrong probably has golfed although he didn't take no PED's for it

They're Yanks and yanks love SUV's, especially if they're suped-up (ie performance enhanced)

Therefore they don't have even 7 degrees of separation.

Capiche?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Armstrong is the only rider to have his records expunged of all of the know and admitted dopers in his (and every other generation) of pro cycling, there isnt any whataboutery as I am making direct comparisons with other riders who have been busted and admitted exactly the same behaviour, whataboutery is when you compare two actions that are vaguely similer, these are all identical.

What Armstrong did went beyond just simple doping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_...ng_doping_case

On October 10, USADA published the details of its investigation, in a 200-page report accompanied by over 1000 pages of supporting evidence. The report included testimonies from eleven former Armstrong teammates and fifteen other witnesses. It portrayed Armstrong as the mastermind of what it described as "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen." The report detailed numerous blood test results that proved Armstrong was guilty of blood doping, as well as over US$1 million in payments to Ferrari. It contended that the normal eight-year statute of limitations for doping offenses did not apply because of Armstrong's "fraudulent concealment" of his doping. Armstrong, USADA said, could not be allowed to benefit from the statute when he lied under oath in both the SCA case and the French investigation, intimidated witnesses and submitted affidavits that he knew were false. Longstanding precedent in U.S. courts holds that the statute of limitations does not apply when a defendant engages in fraudulent acts.[26][27][28]

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

What Armstrong did went beyond just simple doping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_...ng_doping_case

nah, they wanted a scalp, Armstrong was no better or worse than anyone else and he didnt organize butkas, Armstrong was discovered and nurtured by Eddie Borysewicz, a Polish coach that took the US national Olympic team from nowhere to silver medals in 1988, long before Armstrong, by a comprehensive program of east European pharma techniques, he then became the founding coach of what became US Postal, discovering both LeMond and Armstrong in the process while also setting up a comprehensive program of doping, it was he that ran the doping, as in every team, Armstrong was just the head rider of a team that had been doped to the gills long before he pulled on the jersey.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1379859005410009088

[FlamesAddiction]

Holy crap. He is lucky he even survived. Even luckier he didn't kill someone else.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ambien sounds like the winner if he doesn't remember the accident, didn't brake and he was going that fast.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Ambien sounds like the winner if he doesn't remember the accident, didn't brake and he was going that fast.

Why is he taking Ambien in the morning?

He was knocked unconscious, so not remembering doesn't seem suspicious.

Not braking is weird though.

[Senator Clay Davis]

If you're taking Ambien then you are obviously struggling to sleep, so who knows when he took it? Might have taken one at 3am and he would still be in the effects zone at the time of the crash.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1379859005410009088

Woods was traveling between 84 and 87 mph in a 45-mph zone when his Genesis SUV hit the median, and the vehicle was traveling 75 mph when it skidded, hit a tree and launched airborne before settling into a ditch, department officials said.

Sounds like quite the endorsement of a Genesis GV80 from the perspective of safety.

[Sluggo]

I'm sure the ultrawealthy will not like the fact that their vehicles are ratting on them, the publicity from this accident will pressure manufacturers to remove some recording/safety features.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sluggo

I'm sure the ultrawealthy will not like the fact that their vehicles are ratting on them, the publicity from this accident will pressure manufacturers to remove some recording/safety features.

Screw wealth, I don't want that either

[Sluggo]

^ Yeah I did some more reading and most new vehicles have these black boxes in them, I just assumed it was a luxury vehicle thing. Im sure Woods' lawyers held this information up for several months but for us rubes, the information will be out in days.