[PGT] Bad final 40 sinks Flames

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Not sure his downsides are as prominent, and even if they are, Kane’s offence is far more consistent


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Sorry that was my point as well. I have said that Johnny needs to watch tape and try to play more like Kane but others are of the view that it’s an unfair comparison.

[Racki]

Way off topic for the thread but watching the game last night the feed on my sportsnet app was awful. It started last week. Anyone else having this problem?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Hate to say it but see Patrick Kane.

Kane creates some space for himself by being willing to be dirty at times. The main thing though, is he has both inside and outside speed. Johnny doesn’t have the ability to turn the defender and go around to the outside while protecting the puck. When he does he has to go deep (leading to that bad angle shot). Defenders have figured this out, and where they used to back off because they thought he could beat them outside, they now play him tight.

[MacFlame]

Just watched the 1st as I missed it last night.

While the 1st was better than the 2nd and 3rd, they still didnt play physical enough to have consistent success. Simply too many flybys, specifically by the centreman (but the wingers too) making it too easy for the opposition to break out of their own zone and win the majority of battles in the neutral zone. They dont need to be huge hits or anything, that what's so frustrating, because they're perfectly capable of doing it. Even on Johnny's goal, he initially played the body to rub the defenseman out of the play (for just a split second) which enabled the puck to stay in the zone during the PP....which led to his goal.

The flames simply don't do this near as much as they need to.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

Just watched the 1st as I missed it last night.

While the 1st was better than the 2nd and 3rd, they still didnt play physical enough to have consistent success. Simply too many flybys, specifically by the centreman (but the wingers too) making it too easy for the opposition to break out of their own zone and win the majority of battles in the neutral zone. They dont need to be huge hits or anything, that what's so frustrating, because they're perfectly capable of doing it. Even on Johnny's goal, he initially played the body to rub the defenseman out of the play (for just a split second) which enabled the puck to stay in the zone during the PP....which led to his goal.

The flames simply don't do this near as much as they need to.

With the exception of a couple ...actually one player, the flames finished every check in the first period. It was very noticeable.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by timbit

With the exception of a couple ...actually one player, the flames finished every check in the first period. It was very noticeable.

Every check? Highly disagree. More than usual, yes, but certainly not every check.

Perhaps you're just used to how they usually play? It was noticeable because it was more...but it still needs to be better.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

Just watched the 1st as I missed it last night.

While the 1st was better than the 2nd and 3rd, they still didnt play physical enough to have consistent success. Simply too many flybys, specifically by the centreman (but the wingers too) making it too easy for the opposition to break out of their own zone and win the majority of battles in the neutral zone. They dont need to be huge hits or anything, that what's so frustrating, because they're perfectly capable of doing it. Even on Johnny's goal, he initially played the body to rub the defenseman out of the play (for just a split second) which enabled the puck to stay in the zone during the PP....which led to his goal.

The flames simply don't do this near as much as they need to.

Fly-bys in a great word. It's really noticeable. Nobody is checking with any sort of tenacity. Alot of circle skating and very little stopping and starting. It's like they're conserving energy.

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[djsFlames]

Sutter will get them to stand up at the blue line more and force teams to dump and chase. The amount we automatically back off the blue line when the other team skates it up is criminal against these skill-reliant clubs.

You can also be sure he'll have someone on Connor like glue going forward. No space.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Sutter will get them to stand up at the blue line more and force teams to dump and chase. The amount we automatically back off the blue line when the other team skates it up is criminal against these skill-reliant clubs.

You can also be sure he'll have someone on Connor like glue going forward. No space.

Agreed. Seems like it will be an easy correction to have them challenge at the blue line because they are good at it on the PK.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1368618563351764997

Anyone have a link to this play?

[AC]

Originally Posted by krynski

Anyone have a link to this play?

https://streamable.com/tah658

[krynski]

Originally Posted by AC

https://streamable.com/tah658

Oh right, I remember this now! I don't understand why they wouldn't call it a slewfoot as opposed to a trip.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by Racki

Way off topic for the thread but watching the game last night the feed on my sportsnet app was awful. It started last week. Anyone else having this problem?

The app has been working terribly for me as well. I have slightly better results using my phone, but it's awful on my tablet.

[CSharp]

Well, you know the Flames are gonna come out firing against the Sens. Win one, lose one, get pissed off again and win one, and so on... At least they're consistent this way.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by jessnuts

Is
Johnny - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Bennett
A viable top 9 setup?

I haven't seen any setups, with Gaudreau and Monahan separated, that I was fond of.

However, I really like the idea of having both Dube and Mangiapane with Monahan - their speed and tenacity might suit him well.

And Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk is intriguing as well.

My concern is with the 3rd line; Lucic and Backlund need a pest with them to work - a Mangiapane or Dube type - and I am not sure that Bennett suits that role well.

It is an interesting setup.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

LOL, there's no chance I'm wading through this monster thread, so I'll just post my thoughts here:

Everyone sees that the entire team came out incredibly strong in the first, and then the effort and aggressiveness waned over the remaining 2 periods. The team wasn't bad per se, but they didn't force the issue. That's the real problem with these Flames. They cannot consistently play a game where they exert their will over the opponent. That's mental, and that can be improved by Sutter's coaching.

I thought ahead of the game that there would be a handful of players who consistently brought a high-end effort throughout the entire game, and those would be the few players that Sutter wouldn't have to say anything to. The rest are going to need a lot of coaching to get out of this pattern. Those players who played a full 60?

Milan Lucic
Derek Ryan
Noah Hanifin
Chris Tanev

That's not a recipe for success if those are your most consistent players in a game. Lots of work to do for this team.

I don't think Mangiapane will need much tinkering. And I am sure that Dube will quickly settle into a more north/south approach.

Andersson and Valimaki will do whatever they are instructed to do, IMO.

Others are going to take longer.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rooster

Well said. Badger Bob was one of the best at having a game plan to neutralize the best players on the other team. It seems like most coaches think they can win by playing their game but that doesn't always work with guys as good as Mcdavid. Big 6' 4" chicken #### bitch Draisatyl went after our two smallest guys Johnny and the Mangiapane and nobody did anything. In the late 80's half the team would have gone after him.

This is a good point, and has probably been the single greatest theme of Treliving's coaching hires: Gaulutzan, Peters, and Ward all seemed convinced that a dogged commitment to their system was the path to success. (And it makes sense when you consider Treliving's commitment to process).

The best coaches are adaptive. And can neutralize other teams' weapons/strategies.

Sutter's motivational skills are legendary, of course. But I also believe that he is excellent at these things. You have to be, to win cups. In 04, he shut down the vaunted Detroit offence. The Kings shut down everyone in their path.

Whether or not he can get this team to do that remains to be seen. But one thing is fairly certain: Sutter can do his part.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I agree you can't let McDavid build up speed. But don't see what Rasmus did wrong on the game winner. You let him try to beat Markstrom from that angle every time. Clever disguised shot. Caught Markstrom deep in his net. You don't see him beat like that from a spot like that often, let alone at such a critical juncture. Not a terrible goal but one I'm sure he feels bad about and you expect him to stop.

He backed in too far, too easily.

If McDavid was forced to shoot from 10 feet further out, the chances of Markstrom making the save go up significantly.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He backed in too far, too easily.

If McDavid was forced to shoot from 10 feet further out, the chances of Markstrom making the save go up significantly.

Should they look at pairings to balance the mobility- especially with top 4 on the road (matchups off stoppage ie whistles)?

Gio - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

Every check? Highly disagree. More than usual, yes, but certainly not every check.

Perhaps you're just used to how they usually play? It was noticeable because it was more...but it still needs to be better.

It was just a chance for another shot at Gaudreau.

Ever since Jiri posted several games ago about how the same posters say the same things in every PGT, I have really noticed it.