Discussing the fourth line and its personnel

[TheScorpion]

The Flames' fourth line was one of the bright spots of the entire team in 2019. The three players all had career-best years and showed great chemistry as the year progressed.

However, two of these players are free-agents and will require new contracts to continue playing for the Flames next year. For reference, here are the main details for the trio:

- Derek Ryan (32), Centre, 13 goals and 38 points in 81 games, $3.125 million until 2021
- Garnet Hathaway (27), Right wing, 11 goals and 18 points in 76 games, UFA ($850k last year)
- Andrew Mangiapane (22), Left wing, 8 goals and 13 points in 44 games, RFA ($705k last year)

As an RFA, Mangiapane is virtually a lock to stay unless he is the key to an offseason trade. Still, that doesn't seem likely. It seems like a good bet that Mangiapane will get a decent raise; however, at what cost and for how long? And considering the promise he showed at the end of the year, should he be long for the fourth line?

Hathaway's future is far less certain. Big hitters who can pot 11 goals are all-too-rare in today's league, but Hathaway's Lance Bouma-esque shooting percentage certainly makes me concerned about his long-term viability. Even still, Hathaway looked great on the fourth line down the stretch. Is Hathaway here to stay or is he a guy to replace -- and if so, with who?

Ryan is as good a lock as any to return next year. He was excellent in his first year with the Flames and gives the team a veteran 4C of premier quality. It would be incredibly difficult to replace him and he's clearly one of the coach's favourite players. However, considering that Ryan and Mangiapane collectively reach well under twelve feet off the ground, it is still very important to consider Ryan's inevitable presence when thinking of possible replacements for Hathaway.

So, what do you guys think happens?

[keenan87]

Get rid of Hathaway if he wants too much.

Play Mangiapane in the Top 6. Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

Lazar-Ryan-??? (Maybe Czarnik) to be the fourth line.

[GranteedEV]

Mangiapane isn't a 4th liner. Waste to have him down there. Put him with Bennett centering on the 3rd line at the very least.

Ryan is a great 4th liner but needs some skilled, but burly wingers to compensate for his lack of size. Don't need huge bodies but at guys who can win board battles and break the puck out with control.

Jankowski is a solid bottom sixer, and should be moved to Ryan's wing as it is.

Hathaway is meh. If he's cheap you keep him, if he's not cheap (i.e. not 4th line salary) you buy him a ticket up the QE2 or whereever he wants to go. Brought some of the intangibles an otherwise undersized line might need, but that's more an indictment of having Mangiapane or Dube on the 4th line.

I think Lazar and Quine were both grossly underutilized last season. I would like to see a Quine - Ryan - Lazar line next season.

[Strange Brew]

Quine-Ryan- Lazar as your 4th line? That line is a lot worse than last year's 4th line. That said, I’m ok with it if the money you’re saving goes to an elite forward to be acquired.

Unfortunately last year’s 4th line isn’t where the money savings need to come from.

[Freeway]

I seriously doubt Lazar gets a qualifying offer.

[neo45]

Just re-sign Hathaway and bridge Mangiapane

It’s a great 4th line. Let’s not overthink this

[ForeverFlameFan]

Keep those 3 together. Sign Hathaway to another 1 or 2 year deal and just let these guys build and build this chemistry that they have. They were legit the only reason why we won a few more games down the stretch before the end of the regular season. Our problem is the middle 6. We need another top 6 forward to play with Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm and Backlund.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Hathaway will solicit some interest on the open market, and will likely receive some competitive offers. Not seeing an heir apparent in the Flames system however.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Quine-Ryan- Lazar as your 4th line? That line is a lot worse than last year's 4th line. from.

Sorry, my post wasn't intended to suggest that line as an upgrade on our current 4th line. I meant to say I think Quine and Lazar COULD be potential regulars on Ryan's wing, rather than spot minute players as backup 4Cs as they were used last year. Of course if they're not back, it doesn't really matter.

What would I really like to see?

Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube (or even Tkachuk - Dube - Backlund if we get a cushion in the standings)
Mangiapane - Bennett - Neal/Czarnik
Jankowski - Ryan - FrolikCheap player

I think either Quine or Lazar could be that cheap player, with the other drawing in whenever.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sorry, my post wasn't intended to suggest that line as an upgrade on our current 4th line. I meant to say I think Quine and Lazar COULD be potential regulars on Ryan's wing, rather than spot minute players as backup 4Cs as they were used last year. Of course if they're not back, it doesn't really matter.

What would I really like to see?

Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube (or even Tkachuk - Dube - Backlund if we get a cushion in the standings)
Mangiapane - Bennett - Neal/Czarnik
Jankowski - Ryan - FrolikCheap player

I think either Quine or Lazar could be that cheap player, with the other drawing in whenever.

Bennett at center is funny. I look forward to the day you stop beating that dead horse because Bennett is not a center at the NHL level... but I guess everyone has their opinion.

Backlund should also be on the third line. Tkachuk needs to play with guys who can score a lot and make plays. Backlund as a top 6 doesn't win championships.

I would like to see:

Gaudreau-Hayes-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Bennett-Backlund-Neal
Dube-Ryan-Lazar/Czarnik

Give Mangiapane a chance.. maybe he can be our 50+ point surprise player.. it works for Tampa.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Hathaway will solicit some interest on the open market, and will likely receive some competitive offers. Not seeing an heir apparent in the Flames system however.

It obviously depends on the cost. If he gets one of those Adam Pardy deals where people first assume the AAV is the total then you have to let him walk.


But I have no problem giving him a significant raise in reward for his solid play

[Harry Lime]

Keenan, if you don't like Bennett centering the third line, why on Earth would you want Hayes centering the first?

It sounded at the end of the season like Peters regretted not using Lindholm as a centre during the regular games and that handcuffed him during the playoffs.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - NEW
Tkachuk - Monahan - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Neal
Dube - Ryan - Hathaway

In terms of the fourth line and discussion, Mangiapane and Dube are fairly interchangeable.

Buying a new top six right wing, is a lot easier than buying a centre. Brodie, Jankowski and Frolik all have positive value and should be able to garner that for the team.

If Monahan isn't going to be physical, put him with two players who will be. I am now bridging multiple ongoing threads. Sorry.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I would like to see:

Gaudreau-Hayes-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Bennett-Backlund-Neal
Dube-Ryan-Lazar/Czarnik

Did Hayes do anything to garner much of a raise from $5.175? If Tre could get him I might rather see him play RW with Lindholm/Monahan in the middle, Hayes is a better winger than center but is good on his strong side in faceoffs

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Bennett at center is funny. I look forward to the day you stop beating that dead horse because Bennett is not a center at the NHL level... but I guess everyone has their opinion.

Backlund should also be on the third line. Tkachuk needs to play with guys who can score a lot and make plays. Backlund as a top 6 doesn't win championships.

I would like to see:

Gaudreau-Hayes-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Bennett-Backlund-Neal
Dube-Ryan-Lazar/Czarnik

Give Mangiapane a chance.. maybe he can be our 50+ point surprise player.. it works for Tampa.

Hayes is more of a winger. He’s big, but soft.

Backlund is consistently in the top 60 scoring for centres and a second line centre by all metrics available. Would he perform better on the third line? Maybe, but how are you going to distribute the minutes as he is playing shut down 18 minutes per night. Hayes would get destroyed in that role.

I do agree we need an upgrade on the centres. I’m just not sure how to go about it. I’d try to find a top 9 winger instead and then juggle with Lindholm as a centre for Tkachuk.

That way you can bury Backlund and Frolik. Tkachuk and Lindholm can also hold their own defensively.

Wingers (Bennett, Neal, Mangiapane, new acquisition) will need to be experimented with to find a good fit. Would like a gritty top 9 player, not necessarily someone who will score 20g since we have enough scoring, but speedy and gritty.

[bubbsy]

Hathaway is a tremendous player for the current nhl. Gritty player that can skate!

I really want him to be a part of the team, if he can continue playing his style. At the same time, I am worried he goes Bouma style.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Freeway

I seriously doubt Lazar gets a qualifying offer.

Not confident enough?

[Yrebmi]

Miss-read this thread title as " Discussing the fourth line, and it's personal."

Expected to find opposing opinions and name calling.
It's rather drama free actually.

[SeanCharles]

- re-sign Hath
- elevate Mang
- insert Dube

I think Ryan and Hathaway have some serious chemistry and Mangiapane is ready to take on more responsibility.

Pipedream lineup:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Tuch
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Kapanen
Mangiapane-Backlund-Bennett
Dube-Ryan-Hathaway

Toronto and Vegas have what I would say are 3 top 6 RWers and also have cap issues. These two guys are going to remain behind Marner and Nylander and Marrchessault and Stone respectively for the foreseeable future. They also need to re-sign key guys like Karlsson and Marner.

Unlikely but it would be amazing if we could pull it off.

Trade bait: Brodie, Frolik, Jankowski, picks

[btimbit]

Hathaway really won me over last year but I fear he'll command too much of a raise. Let him walk if that's the case.

Mangiapane I'd like to see on the 3rd line

Other than that there's not much I feel speculating on. Too much can happen in the next 6 weeks. I'd say Dube should stay up and hopefully something happens that pushes Jankowski down to the 4th line but who knows what else happens. Do we move a Dman for a forward that pushes guys down the depth chart? What happens with Frolik? Do we sign another UFA forward? Hard to say.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

- re-sign Hath
- elevate Mang
- insert Dube

I think Ryan and Hathaway have some serious chemistry and Mangiapane is ready to take on more responsibility.

Pipedream lineup:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Tuch
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Kapanen
Mangiapane-Backlund-Bennett
Dube-Ryan-Hathaway

Toronto and Vegas have what I would say are 3 top 6 RWers and also have cap issues. These two guys are going to remain behind Marner and Nylander and Marrchessault and Stone respectively for the foreseeable future. They also need to re-sign key guys like Karlsson and Marner.

Unlikely but it would be amazing if we could pull it off.

Trade bait: Brodie, Frolik, Jankowski, picks

Neal?