Making a Murderer - NetFlix series

[Jiggy_12]

The comment from the Sheriff that it would have been easier to murder Steven than it would have been to frame him just epitomizes the incompetence of this entire thing. What law enforcement agency/officer would ever in their right mind say that? Makes it sound pretty well thought out in advance he's got that answer loaded in the chamber. I'm about halfway through and this is unreal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

The comment from the Sheriff that it would have been easier to murder Steven than it would have been to frame him just epitomizes the incompetence of this entire thing. What law enforcement agency/officer would ever in their right mind say that? Makes it sound pretty well thought out in advance he's got that answer loaded in the chamber. I'm about halfway through and this is unreal.

And Strang crucifies him for that statement and gets nothing from the Judge and Jury!

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Locke

And Strang crucifies him for that statement and gets nothing from the Judge and Jury!

It's atrocious.

And so far, Strang is the only individual they've focused on that has even a remote pulse of reality and common sense with what was going on. He must have felt like he was in the Truman show and everyone else was playing a part. I would have been completely incredulous at this whole debacle.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

It's atrocious.

And so far, Strang is the only individual they've focused on that has even a remote pulse of reality and common sense with what was going on. He must have felt like he was in the Truman show and everyone else was playing a part. I would have been completely incredulous at this whole debacle.

I completely agree, but at the same time he is aware that his defence is: "The Police framed him."

I dont know if anyone has ever pulled that off.

That being said, Strang is definitely the best. Both Strang and Buting are awesome.

[blueski]

Read the whole thread, man y'all are a bunch of conspiracy nutjobs

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blueski

Read the whole thread, man y'all are a bunch of conspiracy nutjobs

Yeah you're right, everything was above board and honest. Move along everyone, nothing to see here...

You wouldnt happen to be employed by the Wisconsin Justice Department would you?

[Jbo]

Just finished it up, and I can not believe how this was handled. Even if you think he may be guilty or innocent, there is just to much left unanswered, to much BS to even work through.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Just finished it up, and I can not believe how this was handled. Even if you think he may be guilty or innocent, there is just to much left unanswered, to much BS to even work through.

What really gets me is trying to imagine sitting in jail for the rest of your life knowing how your trial was handled. I think that would kill me.

Dean Strang even says that in the final episode, paraphrasing:

Strang chokes up on camera talking about how he almost wishes Avery were guilty because otherwise the level of hurt that has been inflicted on him is almost too much to bear, it’s painful to watch.

[Jbo]

To elaborate, the amount of things that the state got away with:
-Sherrif knows about the Rav 4 two days before Teresa went missing;

- Fassbender tells Analyst to "put her in the garage"

-Investagators coerce confessions multiple times WITHOUT permission from his parent or a lawyer present

Len Kachinsky - enough said

Lenk -where to begin. Key planting, bullet planting, inconsistent signing in, access to blood;

Judge cites Steven's "previous criminal history" as reason for giving him life in parole, when he was exonerated for the rape;

-Two of the jurors are related to Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department;

-Ken Kratz is not ethical, way to have to resign due to sexual harassment, and those letters to department of justice

I have not even touched on the physical evidence that was never found

[AcGold]

I have a very strong feeling her ex boyfriend Ryan Hillegas was involved with or without her roommate that didn't report her missing.

Her phone was tampered with, he demonstrated he knew her passwords

Her car was concealed in a way so as to seem hidden while also being obvious enough. Hillegas led the search straight to the car.

Hallbach had been contacted by an angry male numerous times before her death.

Hillegas looked nervous and guilty as sin on the stand, his eye movements, his inflection seemed very very suspicious and his answers were calculated.

I'm guessing he had a grievance with her, he found where she was going on the 31st and recognized the opportunity.

The phone, the car, the search and the testimony all pointed right at Hillegas as having some kind of interaction with and knowledge of her whereabouts.

The bones, the bullet, the blood in the car, the car itself all point away from Avery. Not a single shred of physical evidence corroborates Avery as guilty as every single piece has extraordinary doubt cast upon them by incredibly suspicious police behavior.

[Jason14h]

Hallbach had been contacted by an angry male numerous times before her death.

If you read some articles they reference it was Avery calling her multiple times. Posted earlier in this thread.

The bones, the bullet, the blood in the car, the car itself all point away from Avery. Not a single shred of physical evidence corroborates Avery as guilty as every single piece has extraordinary doubt cast upon them by incredibly suspicious police behavior

.

The documentary left out a few things that do point to Avery. Lots was posted earlier in this thread. Requesting her to come out numberous times to the property, allegedly greeting her in a towel, buying handcuffs and chains 2 weeks prior, the bullet being from his gun (Which even if planted means the cops took and shot, etc)

Also made plenty of comments in jail about killing and toturing women when he got out.

While his trial was a complete farse, he does sound like a individual with violent tendancies towards women (the whole family does) and I am leaning towards someone on that property killed her (or multiple people).

The most logical scenario I see was that she was killed there, put into the back on the Rav 4 where the blood was found, and driven to the gravel yard and burned. Rav 4 probably left there or ditched.

Cops find Rav 4 and burnsite, move everything to the Avery compound to ensure a conviction.

The point everyone seems to ignore: If she wasn't killed there. What happened to her???

1. Cops killed her and did everything
2. She commited suicide, cops found her dead in car, planted evidence (internet theory)
3. Someone else murdered her. Cops found body, planted all evidence, and have no issue knowing a murderer is on the loose AND managed to silence everyone about the original crime scene.

Again, the trail and handling was a farse and seems to have created reasonable doubt, but that doesn't mean his innocent or doesn't know who killed her.

[AcGold]

When none of the physical evidence is reliable you can safely assume innocence. That's how the legal system works.

I tend to lean to another option. Someone else killed her recognizing opportunity, the police framed some of the evidence while the killer planted the car and the bones. They had a 36 million dollar case against them as well as their career, salary and reputations all on the line. Point to one piece of evidence that wasn't tampered with or suspicious.

[Street Pharmacist]

Three things that are briefly mentioned but not expanded on that bother me.

1. If the primary burn site is outside Steven Avery's house, why are there any fragments in the burn barrel or at the quarry? He burns her and then randomly puts some deep in the clay at the bottom of the burning barrel and for good measure puts a few bone fragments at a random burnt area in a quarry??? Logic would dictate that's just strange.

2. The bullet was found in the garage, under a compressor. You could tell by the original picture, there's no room to move in there. Where would be have shot her in there? Even to get at the compressor they had to move a car completely covered in dust. How would she have even got there? Maybe she was hiding, but that's a very strange place to hide when you're in a junk yard in a forest. Was this before or after the slitting of the throat, etc? Just doesn't make any sense

3. Blood and hair of the victim in the trunk of the car. Why would he kill her in his trailer, put her in her car, drive it to the location it's found only to then burn her back at his trailer?

[Jbo]

If Steven Avery did kill her, what was the motive? What could possibly motivate a guy to do something like that, in the position he was in? On his own property no less. And then basically do a hack job to destroy the evidence.

There is however, numerous reasons why he would be setup. Same cops that were embarrassed when he got released. Pending case against the county for 36 million. Bit of an "easy" target.

It does not take much to start thinking about more suspects. Brother, Ex-boyfriend, cops in the county. All of these should be investigated, but they were not. Photographer went out there numerous times to take photos for family business. If you wanted to set something up, it would be pretty easy to do with 1 or 2 parties.

[Jbo]

Steven also has new lawyers:

#MakingAMurderer whoever deleted Teresa Halbach cellphone calls is either the murderer or part of coverup. Either way the killer is free

— Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) January 2, 2016

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by AcGold

...Hillegas looked nervous and guilty as sin on the stand, his eye movements, his inflection seemed very very suspicious and his answers were calculated...

This is just the sort of vapid, intuitive guesswork that led to the aggressive investigation and prosecution of Brendon Dassey.

How Hillegas "looked," the pattern of his "eye movements," and his "inflection" are completely irrelevant to this case. There are any untold number of reasons why he would appear "nervous and guilty as sin" while sitting under examination and cross-examination in a courtroom during the proceedings of a high profile case. The fact that his answers were "calculated" more likely has something to do with the coaching and advice that he received from prosecutors before taking to the stand.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Three things that are briefly mentioned but not expanded on that bother me.

1. If the primary burn site is outside Steven Avery's house, why are there any fragments in the burn barrel or at the quarry? He burns her and then randomly puts some deep in the clay at the bottom of the burning barrel and for good measure puts a few bone fragments at a random burnt area in a quarry??? Logic would dictate that's just strange.

2. The bullet was found in the garage, under a compressor. You could tell by the original picture, there's no room to move in there. Where would be have shot her in there? Even to get at the compressor they had to move a car completely covered in dust. How would she have even got there? Maybe she was hiding, but that's a very strange place to hide when you're in a junk yard in a forest. Was this before or after the slitting of the throat, etc? Just doesn't make any sense

3. Blood and hair of the victim in the trunk of the car. Why would he kill her in his trailer, put her in her car, drive it to the location it's found only to then burn her back at his trailer?

If he shot her in that garage then hes the greatest crime scene cleaner in the history of the universe.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is just the sort of vapid, intuitive guesswork that led to the aggressive investigation and prosecution of Brendon Dassey.

How Hillegas "looked," the pattern of his "eye movements," and his "inflection" are completely irrelevant to this case. There are any untold number of reasons why he would appear "nervous and guilty as sin" while sitting under examination and cross-examination in a courtroom during the proceedings of a high profile case. The fact that his answers were "calculated" more likely has something to do with the coaching and advice that he received from prosecutors before taking to the stand.

Agreed. It has to come down the evidence. Not hearsay and especially not persuasive oration and conjecture.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

...The most logical scenario I see was that she was killed there, put into the back on the Rav 4 where the blood was found, and driven to the gravel yard and burned. Rav 4 probably left there or ditched.

Cops find Rav 4 and burnsite, move everything to the Avery compound to ensure a conviction.

This is what I tend to think happened. I am still not convinced that Avery didn't do it, but I am quite compelled to think that the police tampered with and interfered with the evidence in such a way as to ensure a conviction.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The point everyone seems to ignore: If she wasn't killed there. What happened to her???

1. Cops killed her and did everything
2. She commited suicide, cops found her dead in car, planted evidence (internet theory)
3. Someone else murdered her. Cops found body, planted all evidence, and have no issue knowing a murderer is on the loose AND managed to silence everyone about the original crime scene.

4. Someone else murdered her, burned the body, and intentionally implicated Avery. I would suspect that under these conditions the suspect would have to be one of his two brothers, or the brother-in-law and nephew, Bobby Dassey.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

What are the implications of Hillegas admitting to bypassing the security on her protected data? And the others that were involved with taking it upon themselves to circumvent the law with regards to her personal privacy? ( I recall that the roommate was in on the cell phone voicemail tampering as well.)