[Game Takes] Kraken 4 Flames 2

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I guess I just don’t know how that would be different from any other player, and why Pospisil is the focus of that conversation.

If any team offers a premium for any player, you move him. There are probably only a handful of players that are the exception to that rule, and the Flames don’t have any of them.

I pretty much said the same above.

Assign a value to every player, and consider moving them if another team values them more and is willing to pay a premium.

The Kadri line in total has been on a PDO heater for most of the season. So unless we consider all three players to be elite talent that likely doesn't last.

In that group I see Pospisil as doing less than the other two.

It's been a nice story, but he's not a top six winger, and because of that I think he could have a market that is higher than his actual value.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What would you consider a premium? Do you move him for a 2nd? A 3rd?

I mean, if someone offers a 1st, okay I'll talk. but for less than that, I don't think it's worth the message you send. And if I were Kadri, I would be pissed.

Don't think I'd do it for a 3rd.

I'd think hard about a 2nd.

And if the Flames were on a 23 year old center and took say Vancouver's first and Pospisil I'd probably go for it, rather than have the deal go away.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by timbit

I should have included, “at his age”. My mistake.

Brett Lindros retired at 20 after his 9th concussion.

But again, you never know. Proper diagnoses and treatment of concussions in the NHL has really only been a thing since Crosby’s career was almost ended by them. What we know of as a concussion today could have been considered nothing more than a headache 20 years ago. It’s not so much the number that matters as it is the treatment and precautions taken around them.

Definitely don’t want Pospisil to end up taking a hit that results in years of post-concussion syndrome. Just impossible to predict if he ever will.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think he is a middle-six player already. I also think that his overall package is not easy to find. I absolutely LOATHED the Ferland and Bennett trades, and I am not speaking about value here. I hated those trades because both those players elevated their play in the playoffs. Teams had to be aware of them when they were on the ice, and they were impactful players. If you want to win in the playoffs, you need guys like this.


Tampa went out and paid a 1st to acquire Goodrow. Pospisil is tracking well compared to Goodrow, actually, given their respective ages. Same as Coleman as well - tracking well at the same age. I loved Treliving going out and signing Coleman because these are the types of players that you want throughout your lineup in the playoffs. Tampa gave up a whole draft class to get Jeannot, and though that's a terrible trade, they assumed he would rebound back to his first full NHL season in which he was an absolute terror in every aspect of the game. Not sure what happened to him, but it seems like that first full season was the outlier, unfortunately.



I think the overall package makes Pospisil valuable to the Flames - especially valuable to the Flames as they are a team that has little in the way of players that are difficult to play against. I can't wait until we see Pospisil in the playoffs.



I think it is difficult to find these types of players that can legitimately play with skilled players. This is Pospisil's rookie season, and there is obviously more room for him to grow.


I think Pospisil is a 'chaos generator'. He has the ability to create chaos in different ways - he can irritate the opposing teams, he hits like a truck sometimes, he can use his speed and blow by defencemen causing defensive breakdowns, and he has a great nose for the net and isn't easy to box out.


As for his skill, I think the way in which he handles the puck is actually quite skilled. For example, how many players on this team could have handled that Kuzmenko pass that well last night?



I get the notion of selling high. In order to sell high, you have to first figure out what he is worth to your organization. If this team had a healthy Ferland, Bennett, and so on, I would accept a 2nd round pick. However, this team doesn't, so anything less than a 1st doesn't really interest me. I value these physical skilled players, and he has more room to grow.



Maybe this season is the Outlier, and Pospisil 'comes back down', and just becomes a passable 4th liner. I would rather take that risk that lose out on a player who could be a legitimately good 2nd line player with speed and snarl to his game. Those are just too difficult to find. I think he is more skilled than Bouma, and a better skater, but that's a great example of 4th liner having an outlier season. I love that Pospisil is already extended for 2 more seasons at a low cap hit. We will see if he grows, or if this is the outlier.


Another that just popped into my head - Pospisil is trending better than Hathaway did when he was on the Flames, and he is considerably faster. Pospisil has to be one of the top 2 or 3 fastest skaters on the Flames right now.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think he is a middle-six player already. I also think that his overall package is not easy to find. I absolutely LOATHED the Ferland and Bennett trades, and I am not speaking about value here. I hated those trades because both those players elevated their play in the playoffs. Teams had to be aware of them when they were on the ice, and they were impactful players. If you want to win in the playoffs, you need guys like this.


Tampa went out and paid a 1st to acquire Goodrow. Pospisil is tracking well compared to Goodrow, actually, given their respective ages. Same as Coleman as well - tracking well at the same age. I loved Treliving going out and signing Coleman because these are the types of players that you want throughout your lineup in the playoffs. Tampa gave up a whole draft class to get Jeannot, and though that's a terrible trade, they assumed he would rebound back to his first full NHL season in which he was an absolute terror in every aspect of the game. Not sure what happened to him, but it seems like that first full season was the outlier, unfortunately.



I think the overall package makes Pospisil valuable to the Flames - especially valuable to the Flames as they are a team that has little in the way of players that are difficult to play against. I can't wait until we see Pospisil in the playoffs.



I think it is difficult to find these types of players that can legitimately play with skilled players. This is Pospisil's rookie season, and there is obviously more room for him to grow.


I think Pospisil is a 'chaos generator'. He has the ability to create chaos in different ways - he can irritate the opposing teams, he hits like a truck sometimes, he can use his speed and blow by defencemen causing defensive breakdowns, and he has a great nose for the net and isn't easy to box out.


As for his skill, I think the way in which he handles the puck is actually quite skilled. For example, how many players on this team could have handled that Kuzmenko pass that well last night?



I get the notion of selling high. In order to sell high, you have to first figure out what he is worth to your organization. If this team had a healthy Ferland, Bennett, and so on, I would accept a 2nd round pick. However, this team doesn't, so anything less than a 1st doesn't really interest me. I value these physical skilled players, and he has more room to grow.



Maybe this season is the Outlier, and Pospisil 'comes back down', and just becomes a passable 4th liner. I would rather take that risk that lose out on a player who could be a legitimately good 2nd line player with speed and snarl to his game. Those are just too difficult to find. I think he is more skilled than Bouma, and a better skater, but that's a great example of 4th liner having an outlier season. I love that Pospisil is already extended for 2 more seasons at a low cap hit. We will see if he grows, or if this is the outlier.


Another that just popped into my head - Pospisil is trending better than Hathaway did when he was on the Flames, and he is considerably faster. Pospisil has to be one of the top 2 or 3 fastest skaters on the Flames right now.

Yes, I think his skill is getting undersold here. It is quite possible he'll regress in his sophomore year as is the case for Zary, as well. I think it's more likely Zary regresses next year than Pospisil but I'm high on both of them.

[Sylvanfan]

I get the notion that his game could fall off at some point. But I think the risk is to not give him a Lance Bouma contract after this deal moreso than missing out on a second round pick in favor of a 3rd two years from now.

If I was going to shop him, it's more like him plus something else for sn upgraded need as opposed to say straight trade for a second round pick.