Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The RS6 did price out at about $140k including these options: dynamic ride control suspension, black optics package, and dynamic package. Was it readily available and was it to be had for MSRP? I actually don't know as I didn't even get to that point with the salesman because I didn't fit. My interest in the RS6 began and ended with sitting in it on the showroom floor and determining it didn't fit me.

The S-class they have in the MB dealership I stopped at yesterday was fricken $240k! The RS6 was already beyond what I wanted to spend, but it seemed like a dream car on paper. The S-class isn't really dream car stuff to me. It's like a boat...it'd be great if one of my friends owned one, but I don't want one for myself.

I'm a used-car buyer all-day long, but, as you say, this market is all back asswards. I've been holding off on a vehicle purchase for over two years (was going to replace my work truck, but truck prices are bananas and my truck is still mint, so fata it, I'm keeping it). Been a few things around me lately reminding me we don't live forever, so that's why I'm willing to loosen the purse strings some in spite of bad market timing.

For ####s and giggles, I built out both an RS6 and an S580 today... with how I'd want them, the S cam to about $15k more... Now I added everything possible and it's not even close to $240k... Something funny going on there.

I'll resign to the idea that I'm just a weirdo when it comes to the big sedans... I was happy as could be bombing around in my "old man boat" in my 20s when all my friends were getting their careers going and buying sports cars (mine was an Alpina, but still)... Obviously - as the overall market is telling us - no one else agrees with me either.

I'm generally the go-to for my friends when it comes to vehicle advice, but I'll admit this is a real head scratcher... I bet even some of the fun SUVs would be off the table, huh?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

For ####s and giggles, I built out both an RS6 and an S580 today... with how I'd want them, the S cam to about $15k more... Now I added everything possible and it's not even close to $240k... Something funny going on there.

I'll resign to the idea that I'm just a weirdo when it comes to the big sedans... I was happy as could be bombing around in my "old man boat" in my 20s when all my friends were getting their careers going and buying sports cars (mine was an Alpina, but still)... Obviously - as the overall market is telling us - no one else agrees with me either.

I'm generally the go-to for my friends when it comes to vehicle advice, but I'll admit this is a real head scratcher... I bet even some of the fun SUVs would be off the table, huh?

Well, I did look at all the SUVs in October 2021 for my wife. Everything was on the table and we ended up with the Telluride. It was a great decision for the family car, but obviously not an enthusiast vehicle. As for the performance ones...nah. One SUV in the family is plenty for me. I prefer cars. I think the fact that I couldn't wipe the smile off my face after driving the S3 probably tells me everything I need to know. It was just fataing fun.

I was also thinking about us last night and think we probably have a pretty skewed expectation about what a nice highway car is. Obviously something like the S-class would be top tier, but I can't help but think the S3 - by any normal standard - will be really nice on the highway. Like, it's going to be better than almost every mainstream brand's car and definitely better than every mainstream brand's car of a similar size. I may end up eating those words and lamenting a waste of 10s of thousands, but maybe that's a mistake I need to make for myself. I keep rolling over in my head the critical space is the cabin room for me, as the driver. If this is the roomiest and it's super fun and it's less expensive than the other cars I was looking at...I'm not sure there are any other factors to consider.

[TimSJ]

What about an RS3 instead of the regular S3. If you are going smaller may as well have the big engine and have a really good time.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

What about an RS3 instead of the regular S3. If you are going smaller may as well have the big engine and have a really good time.

Yeah, good idea, but I'm not crazy about the interior with the iPad poking out of the dash and those round vents are kind of ugly. Performance would be great, but more often than not I'm cruising on the highway or bumper humping to/from work. Since this will be my DD, I want the lane keep & stop/go radar cruise for just chilling on my way home. It doesn't seem the RS3 offers that in the 2018 versions I was just looking at. Did they sell 2019+ RS3s that were refreshed or anything? I couldn't find anything newer than a 2018 on Kijiji Autos or Auto Trader.

[Table 5]

If you're looking at an S3, perhaps the Golf GTI or R might also be an option. Similar platform (so probably similar fit?), but the Golf has a manual option for added fun around town. MK8 seems to have gone off the deep end with the screens, but should be able to get a decent previous gen that still has buttons.

I think switching things up (or having a fleet of different experiences) is the key to maintaining enthusiasm. If you're coming from a luxo-barge, the smaller simpler cars will feel refreshing. And after a few years when you go back to something luxurious, it will have more impact too.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If you're looking at an S3, perhaps the Golf GTI or R might also be an option. Similar platform (so probably similar fit?), but the Golf has a manual option for added fun around town. MK8 seems to have gone off the deep end with the screens, but should be able to get a decent previous gen that still has buttons.

I think switching things up (or having a fleet of different experiences) is the key to maintaining enthusiasm. If you're coming from a luxo-barge, the smaller simpler cars will feel refreshing. And after a few years when you go back to something luxurious, it will have more impact too.

Yeah, I love GTIs and Golf Rs. I drove a MK7.5 Golf R a couple years ago and completely fell in love with it. It was so fun and obviously the Audi is super similar.

I really want the self driving stuff, though, and you can only get that in the newer stuff. Unfortunately, I hate the MK8 Golfs and couldn't see myself enjoying one.

Appreciate all the help guys. I'm going to end it on that note (switching things up is the key) and start the process here, I think. Just have to take my wife for a test drive and then figure out when I want to do this.

[Ashasx]

I still don't understand how you fit an S3 but everything else is too small?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I still don't understand how you fit an S3 but everything else is too small?

It makes zero sense, but it's Sliver. No one would get into an RS6 or an E400 and then an S3 and say the S3 is roomier.

[Ashasx]

haha outrageous

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I still don't understand how you fit an S3 but everything else is too small?

I'd be confused if I were you, too. It stands to reason that as cars get bigger the interior room increases as well, right? That's what I would assume. It's not the case, though. And it's not just about the seat sliding back...a tall person also needs the seat bottom to angle up at the front to support their legs. Now say you get the seat slid back far enough and the bottom angled so your legs are supported, you are now very far back from the wheel, so the wheel needs to telescope toward you. In virtually all of these cars, the wheel won't telescope far enough so you have to hunch forward away from the back of the seat to reach the wheel. If you move the seat forward, your legs get crunched. If you move the seatback forward your head hits the roof so you have to crook your neck to the side.

Finally, the B-pillar placement relative to the seating position is critical. Take the 3-series as an example. For me to sit in the car with my legs and arms positioned properly the B-pillar was exactly where my shoulder needed to be and it was very intrusive on top of that (probably filled with crash-protection beams and airbags). I had to lean to the right to fit in the car. It's nuts.

For another specific example, the E-class seat bottom doesn't angle enough. That in and of itself isn't a deal breaker as I've had that with other cars. What I've done to get around that is to undue the front bolts that hold the seat down, raise the seat up with washers, then replace the bolt with another high-strength identical bolt but that is longer to the tune of how many washers I've put in. A bit ghetto, but it works. But that doesn't solve the problem of the wheel that doesn't telescope back far enough. You cannot be comfortable if the wheel is 8" too far away from you. It's terribly uncomfortable. So you're always battling with crunching your legs up for a bit to rest your upper body, then when that gets too cramped you slide back and then lean forward to give your legs a rest while your upper body is in misery. Rinse and repeat every single time you go for a drive.

The higher-end models all have power telescoping wheels. I noticed those have way more limited telescoping abilities than the lower-tier cars like the S3. The S3 telescopic movement is manual and has at least two times the range of the RS6 or E-class.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nik-

It makes zero sense, but it's Sliver. No one would get into an RS6 or an E400 and then an S3 and say the S3 is roomier.

But it's a fact. I literally just sat in them all. Why would I make that up? I know and you don't.

[Ashasx]

Sounds like you should just get a coupe then where the b pillar is way further back compared to the sedan equivalent. I have a hard time believing you wouldn't find an S5 or E class coupe more comfortable than a S3

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Sounds like you should just get a coupe then where the b pillar is way further back compared to the sedan equivalent. I have a hard time believing you wouldn't find an S5 or E class coupe more comfortable than a S3

lol, you're welcome to believe what you like. I counted last night and I've owned vehicles from the following makes:

• Pontiac
• Chevrolet
• Ford
• Nissan
• BMW
• Toyota
• Mazda
• GMC
• Acura
• KIA
• Mercedes
• MINI
• Chrysler
• VW

Multiples of many of those, BTW. It's not like I don't know fataing cars and I'm pretty aware of what I can and can't sit in. Newer cars have become more cramped because of all the safety features inside. You didn't know this? That's weird. I mean, it won't affect people of average height because auto manufacturers make vehicles for people of average proportions. When you're taller, though, you can be left out of design accommodations.

I really don't see what is so hard to understand about this. There is an entire subreddit dedicated to tall people (r/tall) and a huge topic of conversation on there is what cars fit best for tall people. The choices become more limited with each model year and I believe they are purposely limiting the range of telescoping wheels so people don't bring airbags too close to their chest. Good for average-sized people; deal breaker for tall people.

I don't know what the height is - I know I'm too short for it, but not by a ton - but really tall guys qualify for disability benefits to help them navigate a world that does not fit them. Again, believe it or don't. Maybe you're an ableist? IDK. I mean, I can tell you they don't sell shoes or socks in stores that fit me - I have to order online. Shirts are too short for me, I have to buy from "American Tall" (specialty site for tall people) as if you go for XXL or XXXL they get wider as they get taller and I'm not obese so it looks like I'm wearing a moomoo (sp?) if I just shop at, like, Mr. Big & Tall.

I don't want a coupe, though. I need to take my kids and their friends around sometimes and coupes suck for that. I want a four door, I found one that works, so why do you want me to look at coupes when I don't want a coupe lol? The B-pillar example was specific to the 3-series. I've explained the issue with the other vehicles.

[Ashasx]

I appreciate your passion. Your passengers will be pretty unhappy in the second row of an S3. An S5 or E coupe certainly wouldn't have less practicality, particularly if you are limiting yourself so much based on your own comfort already. May as way go full out comfort for yourself if an S3 is the practical option.

[photon]

The one thing I don't like about my coupe is the frameless doors. Or rather I like them except in the winter where they are annoying to deal with when they freeze in place so the auto-roll down when opening the door doesn't work. And then the wife/kid doesn't notice and I shudder when they close the door with the window fully extended and I expect it to shatter.

Though I'm probably the only person with such a car that doesn't put it in a garage.

[dammage79]

What about Cadillac? They're made for Americans. Landing one of the few Blackwings would be killer.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I appreciate your passion. Your passengers will be pretty unhappy in the second row of an S3.

Guy. No fataing ####. What do you think this entire conversation has been about? The fact that I don't fataing fit in fataing cars because I'm too tall. Seat all the way back in an RS6 Avant or E-400...there's an inch of legroom for people behind me and that's with me being completely uncomfortable as the driver.

So I found a car where I'm comfortable as the driver and the passengers can work out sitting one behind the other on the passenger side. For short trips I can move my seat up if I have to to drive a couple kids home, although I do have the family SUV that I would typically use in that case unless my wife is out.

WTF dude.

[you&me]

I may have missed it, but how tall are you?

[Ashasx]

I think you're just adjusting your seat wrong, sliver. I think the fault is with you.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

I may have missed it, but how tall are you?

I'm 6'4" and proportioned in just the perfect way to make a lot of this a challenge. A lot of people my height (I have three friends I can think of off the top of my head) just say fata it and drive trucks. That's great if you are satisfied with driving a truck every day, which I'm not. I love ripping around in cars. I actually even own an F-150 that I'm very comfortable in, but I just find driving it to be so boring that it strips all the joy out of driving.