Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Yeah, I get it. The first-gen was definitely pretty ungainly (especially from the back), but I think the second gen is much better looking...especially in Turismo format. They are big, but still great drivers. If I had ~$100K to spend on a family car, that's the one I would chose.

I had a Panamera about 10 years ago and loved the car from a driver's perspective - it was insanely fast and handled great. But as a family car - with a baby - it was literally useless. No room for a car seat, no room for a stroller in the trunk, etc. Now you might not need to fit a car seat, but it still means the back seat is pretty tight... I'm only 6', so a guy like Sliver at 6'4 would leave even less room.

The looks were (are) highly dependent on a few key options, namely larger wheels and PDCC, which gives the car a better stance. Colour preference is subjective, but I've always felt the Panameras looked better in darker metallic colours. The Turbos and later GTS' had (have?) a different bumper, which also improved the looks. There's a night and day difference between a Turbo in black w/ 21" wheels and PDCC and a base car on 18s in white.

I haven't driven the current gen, but don't think the interior has grown much, if at all. The Sport Turismo configuration would help some of the other practical shortcomings.

[Table 5]

Agreed, despite being big on the outside, it's definitely no Roadmaster inside. It's not the car to get if you're at the stage where you're using rear-facing car seats and strollers etc, but if you're past that (or have an alternate to act as your barge), and want a performance tourer that sits 4 in comfort, it's a good option.

[calgarygeologist]

I have a BMW 530e as a rental car and between the 4 cylinder engine and battery/electric motor it is surprisingly quick and the overall fuel economy is good. Seats are very nice and supportive but the BMW interaction for the various controls is far from intuitive. The biggest let down is trunk space though. For a larger sedan the trunk can only fit two large suitcases and a carry-on and even with that I had to force the trunk closed.

Also, I didn't notice the odometer when I picked up the rental at the airport but this rental is brand new. They literally must have rolled the vehicle off the truck at the airport because it only had 3 miles. I've bought new cars that always had more km on the odometer. I don't know how this is even possible.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Anyone have any experience with ABS on Rams? I have an 08 1500. Issue I'm having is the ABS doesn't work. No warning lights on dash at all but if you hammer on the brakes on ice, just slides along. No ABS.

[81MC]

Any chance you recently acquired? Wouldn’t be to first time an ABS module failed and someone just pulled the indicator lamp.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Hmmm, yes, entirely possible. I bought it well before there was snow on the ground.


Is that an expensive fix?

[Sliver]

I'm strongly considering making a big change in the type of car I drive. Rehashing a bit of a post from last week (or maybe the week before?), but I'll keep it quick.

I'm currently in a CLS, which is basically a four-door-coupe version of an e-class. The cars I was looking at were an E-400 wagon and then a RS6 Avant. They were too small for big me.

The S3 fits me amazingly well, so I started looking at smaller cars.

Checked out the M340i (too cramped for shoulder room) and M2 (I couldn't even fit in the carbon seats...my hip bones were wider than the seat bottom). The Mercedes CLA, C and AMG A45 weren't that comfortable, either. Plus the AMG A45 looks a bit boy-racer to me at this stage in my life.

Drove the Genesis G70. It feels too much like my current car, with a side of numbness and bit of blah. Great on paper, but the drive was so-so, although I was able to power slide a really controllable tail-whip, which was super fun. It just felt too much like my current car, but down 150hp or so. There just wouldn't be a point to it...all you could say was it was "nice" but it didn't make me smile. When I got back in my current 11-year-old car I liked it more.

Back to the S3. That thing was a mother-fataing blast to drive. Interior cabin room is honestly better than all the rest, with the exception of rear-seat headroom, which I'm just not that worried about. Nobody could sit behind me in any of the cars listed above, including the Avant and E-400, which still pisses me off, TBH. The S3 actually made me smile and got me super excited.

What I'm kind of wrestling with is, has anybody gone from a bigger luxury sport sedan to a smaller one? This is like dropping two or three levels. Is there something I'll miss about the bigger car? Right now I can't even figure out what a bigger car is for? Like, my Mercedes is 98.7% hood; the cabin of the S3 is truly more comfortable and it's two feet shorter, which is rad. Unless that length in a car is good, but I'm just not seeing why right now. What, exactly, is the point of all these luxury cars getting longer and longer as you move up the classes since the interior cabin doesn't get bigger?

Finally, the S3 doesn't have a heated steering wheel or ventilated seats, which is a bit of a downer, but those are the only two options it doesn't have that I'd miss. I think I can live with that without much bother.

Finally finally, when you load up and S3, you're now at A5 pricing, and from there you could probably talk yourself into an S5 quite easily. Seems like a guy should go for the A5/S5 at that point, but I don't think I want another big sedan. Which leads back to the question - anybody ever drop the "class" (for lack of a better term) of car you drive and did you regret it?

Here's something, too: You could buy two S3s for the price of one RS6 Avant. So while the S3 is expensive, it's way cheaper than where I was when I started this little journey.

[you&me]

For a guy that seems to prioritize comfort over almost anything else, I'm a little surprised you like the S3. Don't get me wrong, a friend has one and it's a hoot... just not what I would have expected, at least based on your posts here.

To opine on something you didn't really ask... I actually LOVE big, full size sedans. One of my favourite car moves was going from a performance mid-size sedan to the bigger brother... Like you said, the mid-size sedan was really no better inside than the even smaller sedan (all the same manufacturer) that I had previously... Have you tried going bigger? Maybe an RS7? If you've looked at RS6s, what about an S or 7 series? (the new S is amazing; the 7 is, um, polarizing)... There's something special about wafting down the road in complete isolation in something that pulls like a freight train when you floor it...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

For a guy that seems to prioritize comfort over almost anything else, I'm a little surprised you like the S3. Don't get me wrong, a friend has one and it's a hoot... just not what I would have expected, at least based on your posts here.

To opine on something you didn't really ask... I actually LOVE big, full size sedans. One of my favourite car moves was going from a performance mid-size sedan to the bigger brother... Like you said, the mid-size sedan was really no better inside than the even smaller sedan (all the same manufacturer) that I had previously... Have you tried going bigger? Maybe an RS7? If you've looked at RS6s, what about an S or 7 series? (the new S is amazing; the 7 is, um, polarizing)... There's something special about wafting down the road in complete isolation in something that pulls like a freight train when you floor it...

Jeez, your post is increasing my trepidation about making this move hah.

I do prioritize comfort...that's what is so disappointing about the e-class and RS6 not fitting me. M340i, too. That car seemed sick and I actually like the interior, whereas I know some people are turned off by the giant screen situation. I think I'm doing the luxury car thing backwards. Should have bought an S3 in 2016 and then bought the CLS in 2023. But for comfort in terms of seating position, seat, ergonomics, the S3 - for me at my size/shape - is more comfortable than all those other ones. It's primarily a comfort-driven choice. That doesn't get into handling, body control, etc. because if you aren't comfortable in the seat forget about the rest. That said, the S3 was still a very nice driving car, but I was only on a 15-minute drive.

Yeah, can't do the 7. It's ####ing hideous.

No, I did not sit in the S-class. I'm sure it would be super chill. I don't think I want a luxury barge, though. Plus there is something about the S3 where you can push it and have fun. If I push it in the S-class or even my current car, I have about two seconds worth of pushing before I've broken the law to such an extent I'd lose my license. Big power is great and all, but you can barely use it. Plus I don't know if it's just my car or what, but I don't find big cars fun to corner. Like if I want to punch it around a curve say exiting Deerfoot North onto Bow Bottom, it feels kind of mushy. I can't figure out if that's just a big car thing, or if it's because you have so much power that it just goes so fast that of course it's going to corner kind of crappy. Or maybe my car just corners crappy. IDK.

That said, I should probably sit in it just to see. As you can probably tell, I'm having a bit of tunnel vision at this point, which I need to shake to make sure I make a rational decision I won't regret.

[you&me]

Sorry, don't want to confuse things further. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with an S3... The term pocket rocket comes to mind.

Again, just my preconception based on your rascal-riding anecdotes shared here, that wafting home from Canmore at a buttery smooth 150km/h would be a higher priority than ripping through the Bow Bottom exit like a hooligan



That said, the suspension in some of the newer sedans has advanced SO far from your (non AMG) CLS, it's like black magic bitch-slapping physics. I believe @agulati has a new S Class he could chime in on...

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Jeez, your post is increasing my trepidation about making this move hah.

I do prioritize comfort...that's what is so disappointing about the e-class and RS6 not fitting me. M340i, too. That car seemed sick and I actually like the interior, whereas I know some people are turned off by the giant screen situation. I think I'm doing the luxury car thing backwards. Should have bought an S3 in 2016 and then bought the CLS in 2023. But for comfort in terms of seating position, seat, ergonomics, the S3 - for me at my size/shape - is more comfortable than all those other ones. It's primarily a comfort-driven choice. That doesn't get into handling, body control, etc. because if you aren't comfortable in the seat forget about the rest. That said, the S3 was still a very nice driving car, but I was only on a 15-minute drive.

Yeah, can't do the 7. It's ####ing hideous.

No, I did not sit in the S-class. I'm sure it would be super chill. I don't think I want a luxury barge, though. Plus there is something about the S3 where you can push it and have fun. If I push it in the S-class or even my current car, I have about two seconds worth of pushing before I've broken the law to such an extent I'd lose my license. Big power is great and all, but you can barely use it. Plus I don't know if it's just my car or what, but I don't find big cars fun to corner. Like if I want to punch it around a curve say exiting Deerfoot North onto Bow Bottom, it feels kind of mushy. I can't figure out if that's just a big car thing, or if it's because you have so much power that it just goes so fast that of course it's going to corner kind of crappy. Or maybe my car just corners crappy. IDK.

That said, I should probably sit in it just to see. As you can probably tell, I'm having a bit of tunnel vision at this point, which I need to shake to make sure I make a rational decision I won't regret.

Yeah, I'm surprised as well by these cars. I recall them to be sporty and tight, or at least I'd have to push the seat so far back the back seat has no leg room. Those honestly feel like a mid size vs a full sized sedan.

Of the premium vehicles, I've always leaned more towards the full sized sedans. The mid sized ones felt lacking to me, especially since I drive others a lot. I'm settling into a BMW 5 series right now and I really like how it's roomy in the same way the last gen Acura TL was like. The kids have leg room in the back even with my seat settings. For the BMWs in the 3 and 4 series, they felt small and the seat behind me would have like 2-3 inches of leg room, if their leg wasn't crushed... and I'm pretty sure I'm shorter than you. The RS4 was tiny and might as well have been a 3 seater due to my seat preferences. What's inexplicable is that it seems like the space the vehicles take up is more than before, but the room inside is less.

I never thought I'd end up driving cars like this until I was in my 40s or 50s... but here I am I guess. Sports+ mode in the BMW is really fun. But these warnings vs instruction manual differences are kinda infuriating.

I swear it's not possible to know what's wrong without a code reader, so I'll likely grab that sometime soon so I can DIY some minor things myself.

[dammage79]

You should probably go sit in a few different Lexus models. I know the status of German marketing and engineering isn't really there but give em a look.

Also if you're jamming with an S3, go play with an Alfa Guilia. If I had f**you money there'd be 2 cars in my garage, a Quadrofogllio and Nissan GTR.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

What's inexplicable is that it seems like the space the vehicles take up is more than before, but the room inside is less.

This basically all comes down to cars needing to meet more stringent safety regulations. You not only need to make the cars beefier to meet the various crash standards, but you also need more room for all the various airbags etc. that surround passengers.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

This basically all comes down to cars needing to meet more stringent safety regulations. You not only need to make the cars beefier to meet the various crash standards, but you also need more room for all the various airbags etc. that surround passengers.

It's getting to the point where they've forgotten a guy needs to sit inside, too, though. I realize I'm big, but I'm not even fat or anything. A fat big guy would be hooped.

My size is above average, but nobody is craning their neck to get a look at "the freak" or anything. I'm just an average tall guy if that makes sense. There should be enough room in a 3-series for my shoulder width. The B-pillar in that car encroaches on where my shoulder should be. Wtf?

I guess they've crunched the numbers and don't mind writing off whatever height percentile I'm in. Can't really blame them, but it sure has limited my options.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You should probably go sit in a few different Lexus models. I know the status of German marketing and engineering isn't really there but give em a look.

Also if you're jamming with an S3, go play with an Alfa Guilia. If I had f**you money there'd be 2 cars in my garage, a Quadrofogllio and Nissan GTR.

Lexus vehicles don't fit me at all. Never have even going back to my dad's LX450. That thing needed the seat to go back 12 more inches than it could. It was crazy.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

For a guy that seems to prioritize comfort over almost anything else, I'm a little surprised you like the S3. Don't get me wrong, a friend has one and it's a hoot... just not what I would have expected, at least based on your posts here.

To opine on something you didn't really ask... I actually LOVE big, full size sedans. One of my favourite car moves was going from a performance mid-size sedan to the bigger brother... Like you said, the mid-size sedan was really no better inside than the even smaller sedan (all the same manufacturer) that I had previously... Have you tried going bigger? Maybe an RS7? If you've looked at RS6s, what about an S or 7 series? (the new S is amazing; the 7 is, um, polarizing)... There's something special about wafting down the road in complete isolation in something that pulls like a freight train when you floor it...

Sat in an S-class on my way home. Okay, it did totally fit and somebody could sit behind me. What a machine that one is. Straight up, spec'd the way I wanted it was pretty far out of my budget and I don't think it's what I want, anyway. You were right, though, that it absolutely fit.

[TimSJ]

What about a Certified S-Class Avoid the stupid Luxury tax that way as well. Should come in around the same price as an RS6. a good friend/client of mine has a 2021 S580 that came in right around $200k when we bought it new we are looking at replacing it this spring and I figure it should retail in around the $140k mark with 6,000km on it.

I bought the same fellow an RS6 in Florida yesterday for his house down there. What a great car.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sat in an S-class on my way home. Okay, it did totally fit and somebody could sit behind me. What a machine that one is. Straight up, spec'd the way I wanted it was pretty far out of my budget and I don't think it's what I want, anyway. You were right, though, that it absolutely fit.

*** Gooood, gooood ***

That's how it begins...

Seriously though, I'm glad it at least worked for you fit-wise, but the drive really should be experienced... You know, just for information gathering purposes to properly make an informed decision.

Tim also makes a good point - sooner than later, a lightly used one might make a ton of sense as the market corrects from this strangeness of car values defying conventional depreciation. Prior to this recent anomaly, I generally bought very lightly used cars for enormous discounts from list price... In some cases, I'm talking 30%+ for cars with <1000km and less than a year old... Those times are probably coming again.

On that note, I'm somewhat surprised you could find a readily available RS6 at MSRP... They have the same base price as the S Class, but market values have (had?) taken the RS6 to and above the price of a well equipped S580, which is why I assumed it was a fair suggestion... It's always easy to spend other people's money, but I apologize if my advice wasn't fair to your wallet.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

*** Gooood, gooood ***

That's how it begins...

Seriously though, I'm glad it at least worked for you fit-wise, but the drive really should be experienced... You know, just for information gathering purposes to properly make an informed decision.

Tim also makes a good point - sooner than later, a lightly used one might make a ton of sense as the market corrects from this strangeness of car values defying conventional depreciation. Prior to this recent anomaly, I generally bought very lightly used cars for enormous discounts from list price... In some cases, I'm talking 30%+ for cars with <1000km and less than a year old... Those times are probably coming again.

On that note, I'm somewhat surprised you could find a readily available RS6 at MSRP... They have the same base price as the S Class, but market values have (had?) taken the RS6 to and above the price of a well equipped S580, which is why I assumed it was a fair suggestion... It's always easy to spend other people's money, but I apologize if my advice wasn't fair to your wallet.

The RS6 did price out at about $140k including these options: dynamic ride control suspension, black optics package, and dynamic package. Was it readily available and was it to be had for MSRP? I actually don't know as I didn't even get to that point with the salesman because I didn't fit. My interest in the RS6 began and ended with sitting in it on the showroom floor and determining it didn't fit me.

The S-class they have in the MB dealership I stopped at yesterday was fricken $240k! The RS6 was already beyond what I wanted to spend, but it seemed like a dream car on paper. The S-class isn't really dream car stuff to me. It's like a boat...it'd be great if one of my friends owned one, but I don't want one for myself.

I'm a used-car buyer all-day long, but, as you say, this market is all back asswards. I've been holding off on a vehicle purchase for over two years (was going to replace my work truck, but truck prices are bananas and my truck is still mint, so fata it, I'm keeping it). Been a few things around me lately reminding me we don't live forever, so that's why I'm willing to loosen the purse strings some in spite of bad market timing.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

What about a Certified S-Class Avoid the stupid Luxury tax that way as well. Should come in around the same price as an RS6. a good friend/client of mine has a 2021 S580 that came in right around $200k when we bought it new we are looking at replacing it this spring and I figure it should retail in around the $140k mark with 6,000km on it.

I bought the same fellow an RS6 in Florida yesterday for his house down there. What a great car.

That's sweet, but the S just isn't for me. Maybe in another decade hah. Thanks for the heads up, though. I also think I'll sleep better with not spending so much.