Patrick Brown/CTV

[transplant99]

The first accuser issued a statement through her lawyer, David Butt, in which the woman said she sticks by her story.

“The reason I will not engage in any more public discussion is that going public with this incident has exposed me to abuse on social media that no human being deserves,” she said.

Which is why this stuff shouldn't be made public to begin with. Make the complaint to the authorities and let them do their job.

Because as much as she says this is happening to her, here is what this fiasco has done to him...

Brown, in an exclusive interview with Postmedia on Friday, called the allegations against him “absolute lies” that have devastated both his career and personal life. He said the “truth will come out” and that he’s contemplating legal action to defend his reputation.

So it appears that he never did anything wrong nor illegal, yet his career and life are left in complete shambles.

How is this OK with people?

How would it not be MILES better to allow these women who feel they have been wronged, to go to the police and make the complaints, allow the crown to do their due dilligence, and then decide what did or did not happen?

What is looking to have happened to Brown here, (with whats now appearing to be no evidence or even basis) is absolutely disgusting.

The mob mentality on this subject was always going to roll over innocents along the way, and it seems no one on that train cared. Brutal.

The worst part though is that I fear its going to end up hurting real victims of abuse and harassment in the end.

[GGG]

So on the one hand you have women who have historically received no justice from the justice system being told use the justice system

And on the other Brown is a victim who the Court system isn't a good enough remedy for.

[curves2000]

What I am starting to see from some people on Calgary Puck and in the general public seems to be flat out differences of opinions and contractions within SIMILAR story lines. More and more stories are coming out and more accusations are being made and instead of things becoming clearer with regards to behavior and what is right & wrong, we have more chaos. When I mean NOBODY knows what the hell is going on, I mean actually nobody knows anymore. How are we as a society going to deal with this going forward?

If we take this situation with CTV and Brown, well the info has changed and certain elements are looking a little hazy. How are we suppose to adjudicate this claim going forward for the benefit of both parties? There are for sure valid arguments that can be made on BOTH sides.

Some people dismiss the fact that the initial reports was that she was underage. To some this is a major point and to others it's spilled milk. Some are pointing to the fact that he was an MP and in a position of trust. How big of a deal is this? Are political players , both men and women going to be held to a different standard from a dating and social norm perspective ? What is a position of trust? How do we, as a country deal with these situations to make sure that all parties all the time are protected?

1) 24 year old male police officer, off duty, approaches a 19 year old female at a party. How should this develop going forward in order to protect a teenager from someone who's in a position of trust, protect the police officer against allegations that may cost us taxpayers money?

2) Single female Dr in a small town who is looking for romance, how should see deal with the delicate fact that she is one of two doctors in town, she's in a position of trust but goes on several dates with a local guy who happens to come onto her too quickly for her comfort level. She cuts ties with him and is now refusing to see his little girl as a patient because of how she feel's around the creep. Who's right, who's wrong? Who's rights are being violated???

3) Big 5 bank VP has a little to much to drink at a Christmas party, is doing some MUTUAL flirting with a lower ranking male employee. She leans over, tell's him how hot he is and pinches hit butt. Someone witnesses this, reports it to HR. How should she be dealt with? Should we throw her to the wolves along with a $1 million + severance package for her 25 years of service ? Is that the best use of shareholder dollars? Do we allow her to continue employment and hope next party is different? What about the male in this story, does he have a right to sue for sexual harassment? Is he considered a "survivor" in this entire mess?

I know this is a long post but what I am loving now is how everything is getting muddier by the day cause we don't know what the hell is going on. Everybody thinks their answers are the best until somebody gives them their version or opinion on the events. It's gotten to be madness all around and a bunch of people who assured everybody chaos wouldn't ensue, everybody knows the rules, are all nowhere to be found.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...isconduct.html

Brown asked her for a sex act. “He pulled down his pants and I don’t know if he said ‘suck my dick’ or ‘put this in my mouth’ but something along those lines,” the woman said.

One of the most traumatic event in my life- having a gun put to my head in a robbery; I can tell you word for word what the guy said. That was 25 years ago. I just don't take this as being that traumatic for her.

Mind you, she also couldn't get her age right when she decided to ruin a man's life.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wow. I wonder if Brown will sue CTV, or if he just wants this to all go away.

he might as well sue CTV as having it go away does nothing for him as his career is already ruined.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I know this is a long post but what I am loving now is how everything is getting muddier by the day cause we don't know what the hell is going on. Everybody thinks their answers are the best until somebody gives them their version or opinion on the events. It's gotten to be madness all around and a bunch of people who assured everybody chaos wouldn't ensue, everybody knows the rules, are all nowhere to be found.

We've obviously in a period of change and confusion around social norms. Some of it is a corrective of predatory behaviour by men. Some of it is a resurgent culture of conformity and shaming - though coming progressives and not conservatives this time around. And then you have the distorting effects of social media. The questions are:

• How can you have social norms when there's nothing close to consensus on what those norms are?
  
• How do we establish the truth in a social media environment where allegations can be made without any vetting, and where outrage and calls for action arise in a matter of hours?
  
• What response do we want for transgressions that fall short of criminal behaviour? Do we even have the capacity to make distinctions and apply proportionality, when the only social sanctions at our disposal seem to be public shaming and consequent total destruction of professional and social standing?

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wow. I wonder if Brown will sue CTV, or if he just wants this to all go away.

I hope he goes after both CTV and his accuser. If you watch interviews with him, the man has been beaten down emotionally and his career destroyed. This kind of thing cannot be allowed to happen without repercussions.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We've obviously in a period of change and confusion around social norms. Some of it is a corrective of predatory behaviour by men. Some of it is a resurgent culture of conformity and shaming - though coming progressives and not conservatives this time around. And then you have the distorting effects of social media. The questions are:

• How can you have social norms when there's nothing close to consensus on what those norms are?
  
  [*)How do we establish the truth in a social media environment where allegations can be made without any vetting, and where outrage and calls for action arise in a matter of hours?
• What response do we want for transgressions that fall short of criminal behaviour? Do we even have the capacity to make distinctions and apply proportionality, when the only social sanctions at our disposal seem to be public shaming and consequent total destruction of professional and social standing?

This is a real concern for me, people seem to have completely lost any sense of proportionality for all forms of harrasment/sexual assault. Just look at this woman's lawyer using terms like "survivor" for someone that had sex propositioned to them. Or how Matt Damon was raked over the coals for correctly pointing out that harassment or unwanted touching is bad, but not in the same way that full-on Weinstein rape is bad. That was a completely reasonable and factual statement that he somehow caught heat for.

I really don't understand why so-called progressives are in such a hurry to throw away the hallmarks of our incredible Western legal system. Concepts like innocent before proven guilty and degrees of a crime seem like they are met with utter contempt.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I really don't understand why so-called progressives are in such a hurry to throw away the hallmarks of our incredible Western legal system.

Because the more doctrinaire among them believe Western society and its institutions are fundamentally oppressive and must be destroyed and replaced with something new. And in these polarized times, the doctrinaire ones are driving the bus. Speak up against them and you must be a Nazi/bigot/Alt-right scum.

[corporatejay]

Because progressives are marxists and marxism is a ####ing terrible ideology.

The irony in all of this is that the more these progressives tear down the current social system and their institutions, the more consolidation of power among the elites will become.

[Kjesse]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4025367/p...assassination/

Good interview with Patrick Brown.

He provides the full story about the accuser and his version has been corroborated by 3 others. She's a liar.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

https://globalnews.ca/news/4025367/p...assassination/

Good interview with Patrick Brown.

He provides the full story about the accuser and his version has been corroborated by 3 others. She's a liar.

Farrah Khan, the manager of the office of sexual violence, support and education at Ryerson University, said survivors of sexual assault experience trauma which can affect memory and details of an event.

“They have the information inside them, but they may not understand it from a linear place, and they may not have the exact details because when you’re sexually assaulted, you’re not quickly thinking in your head, ‘Okay, I have to remember what the door looked like, what shirt he was wearing, where I was going,’ because you didn’t plan for this assault to happen,” Khan said.

“Oftentimes you’re shocked. You’re in a place of fear and paralysation, so we have to remember that trauma affects memory.”

Uh....I think if you're going to accuse someone of sexual assault you'd best have your facts straight.

How old you are, where you were, etc, these are not advanced arithmetic.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GGG

So on the one hand you have women who have historically received no justice from the justice system being told use the justice system

And on the other Brown is a victim who the Court system isn't a good enough remedy for.

I don't think using the justice system and going public with accusations have to be mutually exclusive. If somebody decides to go public through media, why not pursue this through the court system as well? If there is no statute of limitations, and the accuser is no longer worried about coming forward publicly, why wouldn't they use the court system as well?

In the case of Brown's accuser who claimed to be underage at the time, isn't this exactly the kind of case that police take extremely seriously?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Not to mention, the idea that "women have historically received no justice from the justice system" is not only an insane, but a dangerous thing to suggest. There are flaws in the justice system in this area that are difficult to grapple with and need to be addressed. But to suggest that it doesn't protect women is anarchistic and anti-democratic.

[troutman]

From arrest to conviction: Court outcomes of police-reported sexual assaults in Canada, 2009 to 2014

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../54870-eng.htm

[CaptainCrunch]

Flowery quotes aside about memory issues, there are too many inconsistencies and counter witnesses on both of these accusations to reach any other conclusion that these girls lied.

Now the conspiracy theorist in me wonders about the timing of two accusations coming out at the same time, with an up coming election where the PC's were leading in the polls by a lot.

At this point, when a girl says, I went upstairs with him and a friend, and the friend says she's lying. When a girl says he she was underaged and then she wasn't. Plus more, then we have to start taking a serious look at the mechanics of accusations in a public forum.

I mean lets be honest, a lawsuit against CTV and the accusers might get Brown some money, but his chosen career is over, he can't go back to what he was doing. There's going to be a large percentage of the population that won't believe that he's innocent, that he bought witnesses or whatever.

Look I believe that victims can have selective memory issues, but her age, the whole layout of the apartment thing, those details are too broad and general, so to me, it sounds almost like they were scripted based on bad research for maximum devastation.

Its funny though, because they've done a recent poll in Ontario with the different candidates and how they'd do in the election, and it pretty much looks like a inanimate carbon rod as PC leader would crush Wynne (my remarks, I now take polls with a extreme grain of salt)

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Flowery quotes aside about memory issues, there are too many inconsistencies and counter witnesses on both of these accusations to reach any other conclusion that these girls lied.

Now the conspiracy theorist in me wonders about the timing of two accusations coming out at the same time, with an up coming election where the PC's were leading in the polls by a lot.

At this point, when a girl says, I went upstairs with him and a friend, and the friend says she's lying. When a girl says he she was underaged and then she wasn't. Plus more, then we have to start taking a serious look at the mechanics of accusations in a public forum.

I mean lets be honest, a lawsuit against CTV and the accusers might get Brown some money, but his chosen career is over, he can't go back to what he was doing. There's going to be a large percentage of the population that won't believe that he's innocent, that he bought witnesses or whatever.

Look I believe that victims can have selective memory issues, but her age, the whole layout of the apartment thing, those details are too broad and general, so to me, it sounds almost like they were scripted based on bad research for maximum devastation.

Its funny though, because they've done a recent poll in Ontario with the different candidates and how they'd do in the election, and it pretty much looks like a inanimate carbon rod as PC leader would crush Wynne (my remarks, I now take polls with a extreme grain of salt)

This is the part that trouble me most. Not only is his personal career over but an election outcome may have been at least partially determined based on these allegations and that affects millions of people directly.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

Uh....I think if you're going to accuse someone of sexual assault you'd best have your facts straight.

How old you are, where you were, etc, these are not advanced arithmetic.

One of the problems with this idea (no idea whether it applies in Thisbe particular case) is that the persons most likely to be sexually assaulted are the most marginalized (because they are vulnerable): children, persons in the Alex trade, persons with addictions, persons with mental health disabilities, etc. These persons, not by coincidence, are also the least likely to be able to give detailed, coherent accounts of what happened. So it is a very complex and difficult issue.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Makarov

One of the problems with this idea (no idea whether it applies in Thisbe particular case)

This is the most obscure autocorrect I've ever seen.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is the most obscure autocorrect I've ever seen.

My phone’s autocorrect has been typing like a drunken sailor all week for some reason.