The Legend of Sam Bennett

[blender]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Are ya pissed or high or what’s your problem?

Pissy

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What exactly am I claiming here? I’m saying Monahan is not good defensively and hasn’t been good this season either. I’m not saying he’s the worst defensive player in the league here. My major criticism of him is pretty simple, he isn’t producing enough at even strength, especially at his salary, then to couple that with the 2nd most goals allowed on the team. That’s not helping the team.

I mean heck, the dude is currently sporting the team’s worst +/- and that’s not even the first time he’s been dead last on the team in that department. He’s also a career -40, not a good look for a team that’s been trying to get to playoffs every season.

Actually, now that I’m looking at it, Gaudreau somehow sits at a career +41. That’s an 81 goal differential, 60 if we’re looking at the same time frame. I’m not even sure how that’s possible since these 2 have been joined at the hip almost their entire careers. Maybe someone else with more time on their hands can do a deep dive on this little nugget.

That stat is nuts.

Monahan -20 in his rookie year pre JG

This year JG +20 and SM -9, and the other ~30 are just distributed across the other years (I think just one year where SM is higher than JG)

[AustinL_NHL]

Bennett with another one!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

That stat is nuts.

Monahan -20 in his rookie year pre JG

This year JG +20 and SM -9, and the other ~30 are just distributed across the other years (I think just one year where SM is higher than JG)

Yeah, and that’s just one reason why it’s a bad stat. I mean, if you are using +/- to counter Corsi stats that’s not a winning argument, IMO.

EA: Last year Bennett had the worst +/- on the team and he did it in only 36 games. So he must have been very bad defensively, right? Also Backlund last year.

Other bad defensive players over the years: Toby Reider, Michael Frolik, Joel Otto.

[Strange Brew]

It is a cop out to blames Monahan's results on Trevor Lewis.

We are comparing Monahan's Corsi without Lewis to the rest of the team? That's just flawed logic since the guys he is beating in that comparison are sometimes playing with Lewis.

Better to look at how other players do with and without Monahan. Since Trevor Lewis seems to be the object of affection, it's interesting that his Corsi is better away from Monahan. And I don't think it's because he's getting prime linemates in those situations.

Plus minus is not a great stat in small sample sizes. This holds true for other stats too. But we don't need plus minus to know that Sean Monahan is not great in his own zone.

I'm convinced Monahan is giving us everything he has and the Florida game shows he still has touch around the net. Sutter has him 7th in ES icetime among the forwards and that seems about right. At 11:54 per game he is slightly ahead of Pitlick, Lewis, Dube and Lucic who all have between 11 and 12 minutes. You'd love it if he had more skilled linemates but without wingers that are responsible defensively, Monahan creates a matchup problem for the Flames IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It is a cop out to blames Monahan's results on Trevor Lewis.

We are comparing Monahan's Corsi without Lewis to the rest of the team? That's just flawed logic since the guys he is beating in that comparison are sometimes playing with Lewis.

Better to look at how other players do with and without Monahan. Since Trevor Lewis seems to be the object of affection, it's interesting that his Corsi is better away from Monahan. And I don't think it's because he's getting prime linemates in those situations.

Plus minus is not a great stat in small sample sizes. This holds true for other stats too. But we don't need plus minus to know that Sean Monahan is not great in his own zone.

I'm convinced Monahan is giving us everything he has and the Florida game shows he still has touch around the net. Sutter has him 7th in ES icetime among the forwards and that seems about right. At 11:54 per game he is slightly ahead of Pitlick, Lewis, Dube and Lucic who all have between 11 and 12 minutes. You'd love it if he had more skilled linemates but without wingers that are responsible defensively, Monahan creates a matchup problem for the Flames IMO.

IIRC Corsi stats are better this year for quite a few players with Monahan versus without.

I just don’t see the bad defensive play that you are seeing. I see him getting plenty of sticks on pucks, getting plenty of puck retrievals on the boards, and making plenty of good exit passes. His position his usually good. He doesn’t fly the zone.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

That stat is nuts.

Monahan -20 in his rookie year pre JG

This year JG +20 and SM -9, and the other ~30 are just distributed across the other years (I think just one year where SM is higher than JG)

I did remove his rookie year in my post. If you noticed, I said the difference was 60 instead if that year was removed. Even if we didn’t include this season, which should be counted IMO. The difference would be 30ish, which like I said, is a surprising difference for 2 players who were basically attached to the hip every shift.

I think it’s just another indicator of how important Gaudreau is/has been to Monahan’s effectiveness as a hockey player. Gaudreau clearly doesn’t need him and has obviously found ways to score/defend without him throughout his career whether it be this season or years past.

Going forward, whether Gaudreau re-signs with the Flames or not, I think it’s imperative he plays with a strong defensive center who can also check. The less time he and his line spend defending, the more time he has in the offensive zone.

[GioforPM]

Eg: Mangiapane has positive Corsi with Monahan/Lucic, Monahan/Coleman and Monahan Dube. But negative with Lucic/Backlund and Dube/Ritchie.

Lewis in fact is negative with everyone except when Ruzicka or Gawdin are on his line. But of the more regular roster members, his highest two Corsi ratings come with Monahan (49.2) when paired with Lucic or Coleman.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It is a cop out to blames Monahan's results on Trevor Lewis.

We are comparing Monahan's Corsi without Lewis to the rest of the team? That's just flawed logic since the guys he is beating in that comparison are sometimes playing with Lewis.

Better to look at how other players do with and without Monahan. Since Trevor Lewis seems to be the object of affection, it's interesting that his Corsi is better away from Monahan. And I don't think it's because he's getting prime linemates in those situations.

Plus minus is not a great stat in small sample sizes. This holds true for other stats too. But we don't need plus minus to know that Sean Monahan is not great in his own zone.

I'm convinced Monahan is giving us everything he has and the Florida game shows he still has touch around the net. Sutter has him 7th in ES icetime among the forwards and that seems about right. At 11:54 per game he is slightly ahead of Pitlick, Lewis, Dube and Lucic who all have between 11 and 12 minutes. You'd love it if he had more skilled linemates but without wingers that are responsible defensively, Monahan creates a matchup problem for the Flames IMO.

Good point. Also, if Monahan was matched up against the McDavid’s and McKinnon’s of the world, it might be understandable given the circumstances. But he’s going up against other bottom 6 forwards/replacement levels players and he’s not winning enough of his matchups. His minutes should indeed be limited until he can start positively influencing the team’s goal differential. For the sake of comparison, Backlund has struggled this season, but even he’s still a net positive at 5 on 5 despite his much more difficult shutdown role.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Sam Bennett with 8 points in his last 4 games!

[jayswin]

So happy to see him break out like this, it's just incredible.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Good point. Also, if Monahan was matched up against the McDavid’s and McKinnon’s of the world, it might be understandable given the circumstances. But he’s going up against other bottom 6 forwards/replacement levels players and he’s not winning enough of his matchups. His minutes should indeed be limited until he can start positively influencing the team’s goal differential. For the sake of comparison, Backlund has struggled this season, but even he’s still a net positive at 5 on 5 despite his much more difficult shutdown role.

A 6.5M guy has to score a lot in any situation. Who cares if he is competent in his own zone with Trevor Lewis. Unless he starts scoring much more, Monahan won’t be a Flames after next year and is probably looking at a massive paycut

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sam Bennett with 8 points in his last 4 games!

That contract is looking pretty sweet for the Panthers.

[AustinL_NHL]

Benny with #18!

[powderjunkie]

16th in the league for G/gp (min 20 gp)

prettaaaaaaay, prettay, pretty good.

[FBI]

So he would be leading our team in goals now

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FBI

So he would be leading our team in goals now

Playing where he slots here, 4th line wing?

I mean sure Bennett is getting some points, but at what opportunity cost - how is his team doing?

Oh.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Playing where he slots here, 4th line wing?

I mean sure Bennett is getting some points, but at what opportunity cost - how is his team doing?

Oh.

Obviously hes part of what they're doing there. Legend.

[Manhattanboy]

Ok some one please explain it again for the last time. Sam thought he would be staying once Darryl became boss. Said so last week. And he’s a Darryl type guy. So why did Tre still pull the trigger?

[OminousFlames]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ok some one please explain it again for the last time. Sam thought he would be staying once Darryl became boss. Said so last week. And he’s a Darryl type guy. So why did Tre still pull the trigger?

The draft. If you were protecting Dube and Mangiapane, they couldn't protect Bennett. So the Flames got at least something instead of nothing.