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Old 03-19-2015, 06:19 PM   #81
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At the end of the day you have to question if we are sincere in the reason we are making the changes and if you ask me so far it's the top team upset about how it affects them then maybe the league is in on something right
Given that Rob and I spoke about it face to face today, I can assure you that he's not upset because his team suffers the most as a result.


The reason why we are arguing the UFA rule timing and the awards timing is because we have already strategized around those rules being in place.

Given that this is a long-term game, I don't think it is unreasonable to make strategic decisions based on expectations that the rules that are in place now will be the same rules that are in place at the end of the season.

When it was clear Rob was going to run away with the league title and ultimately lose in the first round, we had discussions about how he planned on spending his extra cap space next year. He put lots of effort into his preliminary off-season plan based on rules that had existed all season up until today.

I love the UFA rule change. I love eliminating the cap rewards. And I think they should be implemented for next season. Just not right now, as there are teams that have played the entire season under the assumption that those rules were not changing.
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:27 PM   #82
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The top end UFAs are probably always going to be re-signed. But I see this playing out a couple different ways
- As you say, you won't trade for any UFA that you can re-sign. This should mean more of them hit the market.
- If you decide to trade a RFA to free up that space, that puts a good RFA on the market which is good.

When I looked at this one of the trends I saw that was creating the asset difference was that lower teams pretty much were in a cycle of paying for aging vets, signing to grids, and then doing the same over and over.

This I think breaks that cycle. Though it remains to be seen.
I think it will also lower the price of UFA rentals, especially for veterans. This might increase trading deadline activity.
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:28 PM   #83
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I can understand that

I too had made a plan to send Tavares, Seguin and Elssis all down to the AHL and resign them there so I had an extra 18-20M to improve my non playoff team. I made decisions just as much for this as anyone else, you can say even more since I was the fool that refused to do it last year I sure as hell wasn't going to let the chance go

But Like I voiced last year and again this year. This is the right move

AS for my plan, tear it up... readjust

But I fail to see how one should be grandfather over the other
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:31 PM   #84
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I can understand that

I too had made a plan to send Tavares, Seguin and Elssis all down to the AHL and resign them there so I had an extra 18-20M to improve my non playoff team. I made decisions just as much for this as anyone else, you can say even more since I was the fool that refused to do it last year I sure as hell wasn't going to let the chance go

But Like I voiced last year and again this year. This is the right move

AS for my plan, tear it up... readjust

But I fail to see how one should be grandfather over the other
Wouldn't those players be subject to re-entry waivers?

Never mind, I see what you are saying.

Honestly, I'd argue that should also be grandfathered in and apply after the start of next season. As you said, it's a legit strategy that you were banking on. Granted, it was a loophole and against the spirit of the re-call waiver rule (or at least I'd argue that), but I would have no issues if we let teams do that this year but not going forward
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:34 PM   #85
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Wouldn't those players be subject to re-entry waivers?
No once the watchdog was off the hook they were free to go down... hence why it was a loophole being exploited.

I spoke up about it when I was the team that had the most to loose just so I wasn't picking on any one team
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Old 03-19-2015, 06:47 PM   #86
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Doug, stop with this evil rich vs. helpless poor thing, you're the only one taking that angle and you're manufacturing a sentiment that nobody has presented.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:07 PM   #87
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Ravi .. Would this have changed our negotiation surrounding Hossa ?
Maybe not by much, I likely would have just targeted Marleau instead because now he has some term. I've been in leagues with a UFA scenario like this and it just drives up the value of younger players that much more. I think the award alterations and other rule changes are excellent, just not a big fan of the UFAs having barely any value. Having said that we'll just continue to plot along and adjust our strategy, I was just chiming in with my thoughts on the rules.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:51 PM   #88
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As a GM these rules do not benefit my team in the least. They actually hurt it quite a bit. For the first time in my tenure I am having a great regular season. There is a very good chance I can win my division and the conference. I was joking with someone the other day that i won't know what to do with my extra 2.5 mill. I also traded for Parise who is a great player. But also a UFA. I didn't know where he stood as part of my long term plans, but dealt for him with the understanding that if he didn't fit my financial landscape I could still move him in the offseason for a good return. That's not the case anymore.

So at first I looked at these changes as really hurting the plan I had in place. But after the initial reaction I look at it as a challenge. I will have tougher choices to make.

As a commish the type of rules that force strong teams to really think and make smart choices are what we are looking for. The fact that most of the teams that are affected are strong teams shows that they are accomplishing what they need to.

Are they ideal for teams that have been planning for other things. No. Are they effective in bringing what a lot of GMs have been calling. Yes.

As a commish. My opinion is we bring them all in or we wait for them all. There is no change this wait for that because every rule affects teams in different ways. So it is all or none in my eyes. If you asked me a week ago I would say wait. If you ask me now I would say bring them on.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:53 PM   #89
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I think it will be interesting to see how different teams manage these changes.
Keep in mind there was a time in the CPHL where you could re-sign one pending UFA and the rest were free agents. No opportunity to get anything from that asset or keep it at all.
Under this rule you can still choose to re-sign the player and keep them, or re-sign them and trade them, or not re-sign them.

If I were a team facing this situation I would look at my pending UFAs and think about which ones have good 3 year value. I would then look at my RFA aged players and think about the return I could get for them coupled with the opportunity to keep my UFA.

This will likely change the type of player that hits UFA status for the open market, but I also think it could change the availability of other players. Specifically I would predict we see an increase the availability of more expensive RFA aged players.

I don't think anyone is being put in a bind where they can't extract value out of a player that should have value.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:07 PM   #90
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Doug, stop with this evil rich vs. helpless poor thing, you're the only one taking that angle and you're manufacturing a sentiment that nobody has presented.
If that is really what you think then you have no idea
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:16 PM   #91
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I applaud the Commissioners for making these changes. I really think they will help prevent a further bunching of assets with a few teams. I am curious to see how things look next season.

Thanks !
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:54 PM   #92
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As a commish. My opinion is we bring them all in or we wait for them all. There is no change this wait for that because every rule affects teams in different ways. So it is all or none in my eyes. If you asked me a week ago I would say wait. If you ask me now I would say bring them on.
My opinion is to wait on them all (Implement them after UFA season). I think there's a time to make drastic rule changes and it isn't near the end of the season


What changed from last week to this week that changed your mind?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:01 PM   #93
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My opinion is to wait on them all (Implement them after UFA season). I think there's a time to make drastic rule changes and it isn't near the end of the season


What changed from last week to this week that changed your mind?

The only thing that changed was the way I looked at things. I was looking at things from a Pittsburgh Penguins point of view. I couldn't get past that I have never won a division and now when I have a chance too I won't get rewarded. Also Parise. I paid an RFA player I liked a lot to get him and couldn't get past having to trade him, lose him or trade another player to make room.

Then I started looking at ways to move assets around the league. And if I was struggling with the choice than I am sure other good teams were as well. So I liked that challenge, and I also thought it may move assets quicker.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:58 PM   #94
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Why not implement the new rules right after the rollover which is the start of our new year? I am just baffled that all these changes would come 3/4 of the way through a season, I don't get that. A lot of good reasons posted why this doesn't make any sense.

Why now? Why right away? What's the rush?
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:04 PM   #95
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Why not implement the new rules right after the rollover which is the start of our new year? I am just baffled that all these changes would come 3/4 of the way through a season, I don't get that. A lot of good reasons posted why this doesn't make any sense.

Why now? Why right away? What's the rush?
Our start of the new year is when the playoffs end. Which is basically when all these rules go into effect. The start of the off-season is the start of a new year. So we either do it then or we wait and do it next off-season. And the impacts of these changes are not immediate - everything has a delayed effect.
So if people are serious about making this league better and more competitive then we do it now.

I don't know why you are so worried. You can handle this. You need to find a way to re-sign Nash, Vlasic and Suter. None of the other guys are worth gridding and therefore should not have had any value in the off-season anyways.

Not bringing back Boyle, Vlasic, Lovejoy, and Comeau frees up something like 14M right there. Then look at dealing guys like Stoll (4.00), Vermette (6.3) or Moulson (7.5).

Keep your quality UFAs, flip your expensive RFAs for assets and you're golden.

Not trying to make it specific to you, but just using your roster as an example that things are not impossible.

We've made big changes before
- Switched sims
- Expanded
- Contracted
- Added Agents
- Dumped agents

GMs adjust.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:18 AM   #96
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I appreciate the advice and trust me I know I can handle it but this but you may be shocked to learn that in all my comments I am not speaking as the Jackets GM, I am speaking for those GM's who are either too intimidated to say anything or just don't comprehend how this may handicap them with such an immediate change.

All those changes are great, none came a week from the end of a season.

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Old 03-20-2015, 09:22 AM   #97
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I appreciate the advice and trust me I know I can handle it but this but you may be shocked to learn that in all my comments I am not speaking as the Jackets GM, I am speaking for those GM's who are either too scared to say anything or just don't comprehend how this may handicap them with such an immediate change.

All those changes are great, none came a week from the end of a season.
Please list them

Why don't you just worry about your own team?
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:36 AM   #98
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Really Joe? It is pretty obvious. I have no issue with MJK talking in generalities if its good discussion that benefits the league as a whole.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:51 AM   #99
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Please list them

Why don't you just worry about your own team?
Because this isnt about my team, its about the timing of the rule changes and how it will impact the league in general.

Not sure how many other ways I can say I do not mind the rules changes at all, that's not the issue, and if the changes and timing is final and will be implemented ASAP I can live with that.

However, in the future I would encourage that the commish team to think about their timing when making big changes, that's all.

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Old 03-20-2015, 09:52 AM   #100
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Scared GMs? Please.

^. In response to Pat
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