Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Pace has nothing to do with negotiating. Drawing out the process as long as possible just leads to a poor buying experience. You want the best deal? Show up to the dealership at noon on the last day of the month. By 5:00 you will have the best price available.

This is why people hate car dealerships. Five hours? Kill me.

[PepsiFree]

It’s going to be so nice when the traditional car dealership model is an antiquated thing of the past that people just laugh about. They provide no unique value and are, at best, a neutral experience, and at worst a terrible one.

I’ve gone in knowing exactly what I want and exactly what I should have to pay and the song and dance to get there is still ridiculous. Some dealerships are OK and guilty of some high pressure tactics or dumb theatrics, but others straight up bull#### you and play ridiculous games.

Yes, go talk to your manager. Again. I’ll wait.

Just let people order their vehicles online and pay invoice minus any incentives. The end.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This is why people hate car dealerships. Five hours? Kill me.

If you answer “yes” to everything you are in and out in 30 mins, Done. If a person needs to negotiate, think about it, read the fine print, ask their spouse, talk to their own bank, get an insurance quote, shop the competition etc.. well that all takes and time that doesn’t necessarily need to be spent at the dealership. Spending a few hours on a $60,000 purchase should not seem unreasonable.

[Fuzz]

I'd definitely spend more than a few hours on a purchase that big, but it wouldn't be spent in a dealership.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s going to be so nice when the traditional car dealership model is an antiquated thing of the past that people just laugh about. They provide no unique value and are, at best, a neutral experience, and at worst a terrible one.

I’ve gone in knowing exactly what I want and exactly what I should have to pay and the song and dance to get there is still ridiculous. Some dealerships are OK and guilty of some high pressure tactics or dumb theatrics, but others straight up bull#### you and play ridiculous games.

Yes, go talk to your manager. Again. I’ll wait.

Just let people order their vehicles online and pay invoice minus any incentives. The end.

I was saying this 20 to 25 years ago because it seemed inevitable and I really thought that the Tesla model and success would change things but it hasn't and it won't. Maybe in another 25 years?

I think the only impetus that I see coming which might change the structure is an influx of Chinese brands. If they show up without a dealership model, provide a different experience and have success maybe that will move the needle. Otherwise we are stuck with dealerships.

[TorqueDog]

I added a ~$5,000 option to my Range Rover before going out for the trip this weekend and it has become my favourite way to drive the vehicle... cost me about 5 minutes fiddling with my programmer. There was an additional option package that added a 'Dynamic' driving mode (tightens the steering ratio of the electric assist steering and stiffens the anti-roll bars for cornering). Mine has the big supercharged V8, but didn't get optioned with Dynamic mode. 5 minutes of programming and boom, thing corners like it's on rails without compromising ride quality, everything required for the mode to work was already fitted in the vehicle... just a software configuration change.

Next up, going to see just how much 'manufacturing efficiency' they exploited. I'll see if the cooled rear seat components are present and just need to be lit up in software. Also adding intelligent cruise control (though I do have to install the radar module for that -- already procured).

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s going to be so nice when the traditional car dealership model is an antiquated thing of the past that people just laugh about. They provide no unique value and are, at best, a neutral experience, and at worst a terrible one.

I’ve gone in knowing exactly what I want and exactly what I should have to pay and the song and dance to get there is still ridiculous. Some dealerships are OK and guilty of some high pressure tactics or dumb theatrics, but others straight up bull#### you and play ridiculous games.

Yes, go talk to your manager. Again. I’ll wait.

Just let people order their vehicles online and pay invoice minus any incentives. The end.

I bought my Rover through Jaguar Land Rover Calgary (Glenmore Automall), and by the end of it I would have GLADLY taken what I remembered to be the 'traditional car dealership' experience when I worked car sales as an adult teenager.

Ho-lee sh-t.

It was a constant back and forth -- not just with the sales person to get the CORRECT details of our deal (I had to fix the deal several times) -- but then the finance / business manager (who should traditionally have FULL visibility into the deal) didn't even have access to the key aspects of the deal. For example, what is the god-damned interest rate you're quoting me? I can do math, your payment is higher than it should be so I want to know what interest rate you're selling me.

It took far, FAR too long, way too many "I'll go check with my 'director'..." responses. It's the 'GoAuto' dealership model, the business manager knows nothing about the deal finances, they're just a warranty and protection package salesperson. My sympathies to the relatively green sales consultant and very green finance manager who I must stress were very nice people, but their dealership model is completely rubbish and was infuriating to someone who knows how the car buying experience should go with a dealership.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

What’s the best way to buy a new car? We’re considering a brand-new hybrid Toyota RAV4. I hate negotiating and am not good at it. I’ve heard that there is little room to negotiate on Toyotas anyway. My son-in-law likes and is good at negotiating. Should I send him into the dealership on my behalf? How should I approach this? I’m aware I’ll likely have to wait a year for delivery.

There’s literally no negotiating on those units right now. They’re still a year out and if you want one sooner you’re paying over MSRP, which on a rapidly depreciating piece of junk, is the stupidest thing I can imagine.

You need to determine if you’re confident that a year from now what you would be ordering today, for the money you’ll have tied up, is still the best option/what you want. Full stop, that’s the only consideration. If a few thousand dollars of extras and add-one sours you, don’t even bother trying right now.

[Sliver]

Well, I sold my Genesis G80. Almost had it a year. Kept my last car seven years, so it's not like I'm super into jumping all over the place on cars like when I was younger.

Everything about it was really good. Handling was very good for a big sport sedan. Better than people would expect, IMO. Just very good in that regard.

Nothing went wrong...no complaints...good experience.

Better to have liked and lost than to have never liked at all. I just didn't love it. Found myself walking up to it and thinking, 'that's quite a nice car'. I prefer to walk up and think, 'that's cool af'.

So, anyway, happy with my experience, very good vehicle, no issues, didn't feel enough love toward it.

[TorqueDog]

I'm not entirely surprised. You seemed like the sort of person who liked to feel a 'sense of occasion' with their car (I am), so I always thought the G80 was an interesting choice.

So the important question then... what's next?

[Erick Estrada]

I'm so conditioned to BMW when I see "G80" I always immediately think of G80 M3. Probably a bit more sense of occasion with one of those.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I'm not entirely surprised. You seemed like the sort of person who liked to feel a 'sense of occasion' with their car (I am), so I always thought the G80 was an interesting choice.

So the important question then... what's next?

Yeah, I also like to try all different brands. Fun to know the ins and outs of the manufacturers first hand. I've had practically every make ever. Didn't want to pass up a shot at Genesis, but just wasn't the right fit for me.

I've been travelling a bit more for work...kids are older, I've got a great office team and I'm trying to spread the wings of my company a bit to other areas. Leased a loaded Tremor through my company as a truck works best for what I do right now. Was originally looking at a Raptor, but their payload is terrible, which, of course, also affects their towing ability (tongue weight). I like bringing my RV on my work trips, so the Raptor was out. Tremor is a way better DD. Also, Blue Cruise is amazing. Can't believe people don't talk about it more. My truck drove me to Edmonton last week. Drove me to a meeting in Banff the week before. Like...you press a button and then do nothing. It's amazing and works perfectly. Even does lane changes for you.

I've just parked all the cash from my G80 sale (owned it outright) and will get a fun car when the kids move out in a year or two. They both drive now and I don't want to junk up my place with too many vehicles.

Short list right now for next car that I'll own in addition to the truck:
- Golf R
- Mustang GT
- Ioniq 5 N
- might just go totally overboard and get a 911

We'll see, but nothing super crazy for now. I'll be a truck guy for a bit hah.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I'm not entirely surprised. You seemed like the sort of person who liked to feel a 'sense of occasion' with their car (I am), so I always thought the G80 was an interesting choice.

So the important question then... what's next?

Well the M5 wagon is coming to Canada. Have the choice of the three fast wagons now.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm so conditioned to BMW when I see "G80" I always immediately think of G80 M3. Probably a bit more sense of occasion with one of those.

I don't fit in them, anymore. Audi, Mercedes and BMW fkd up their interiors for people my height. Before the Genesis I started looking at an RS6 Avant (seat wouldn't go back far enough), 3-series BMWs super don't fit me, couldn't even shoehorn myself into an M2, not a single Mercedes was comfortable, etc. etc. Koreans make a very comfortable car for tall people.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Pace has nothing to do with negotiating. Drawing out the process as long as possible just leads to a poor buying experience. You want the best deal? Show up to the dealership at noon on the last day of the month. By 5:00 you will have the best price available.

I do all my buying/negotiating over email. Maybe that's to do with my profession.

I just bought new appliances. I come in and look around, get a feel for the brands, see what catches my eye. Chat a little about what i am looking for. Go home, deep dive for a week or two, then email the makes/models of each appliance im buying. No upsells, no, "well if you like that model, you are going to love this". F that, i know what i want and i am putting it in writing so you can't weasel out.

Obviously, appliances don't involve the same negotiating angles, but going at your own pace is perfect and you get everything in writing. No, i don't want a phone call where you can weasel out, im not coming to the dealership to play the game. Ill contact a dozen dealerships and see what's the best price i can get. Got a finance agreement? send it to me with time to review it at my own pace, and without any pressure to pull a deal.

Any company that can't meet me at that, is suspect.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, I also like to try all different brands. Fun to know the ins and outs of the manufacturers first hand. I've had practically every make ever. Didn't want to pass up a shot at Genesis, but just wasn't the right fit for me.

I've been travelling a bit more for work...kids are older, I've got a great office team and I'm trying to spread the wings of my company a bit to other areas. Leased a loaded Tremor through my company as a truck works best for what I do right now. Was originally looking at a Raptor, but their payload is terrible, which, of course, also affects their towing ability (tongue weight). I like bringing my RV on my work trips, so the Raptor was out. Tremor is a way better DD. Also, Blue Cruise is amazing. Can't believe people don't talk about it more. My truck drove me to Edmonton last week. Drove me to a meeting in Banff the week before. Like...you press a button and then do nothing. It's amazing and works perfectly. Even does lane changes for you.

I've just parked all the cash from my G80 sale (owned it outright) and will get a fun car when the kids move out in a year or two. They both drive now and I don't want to junk up my place with too many vehicles.

Short list right now for next car that I'll own in addition to the truck:
- Golf R
- Mustang GT
- Ioniq 5 N
- might just go totally overboard and get a 911

We'll see, but nothing super crazy for now. I'll be a truck guy for a bit hah.

Always nice to be able to scratch an itch.

Blue cruise is amazing.

And a 911 isnt overboard... If anything, it's just the right board.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by DFO

Well the M5 wagon is coming to Canada. Have the choice of the three fast wagons now.

I think the 63S has been discontinued?


**** RANT TIME LOL ****


Oh man, speaking of poor dealership experiences…

I’m a simple VW cultist. Bought recent R’s, from 5th Ave VW, and Gary Moe in Red Deer. Each time, show up with old VW, trade in for new, based upon established pricing, leading to exchange of old, and drive away in new. 1 hour tops, each time.

I even tried to get a new R, from 5th etc, but was on waiting list >1yr.

Until I happened to be in Cranbrook, and popped inside last December, and saw a new R inside. Sadly that one was an autotragic, but the sales person offered up, an allotment for a manual.

I countered with; no arbitrary dealership overcharges/market adjustments etc;

March rolls by and my allotment originally targeted for September, is arriving in April. Yay!

Now I’ve negotiated over text message, the financial terms. Then upon arrival, their greasy, lying sales guy, kept putting the contract in front of me, and intending for me to immediately & haplessly, sign it.


I don’t, I’m reviewing. And I keep having trouble arriving at their numbers. I’m about $3k out.

I escalate to some manager, she’s new, and essentially useless.

I escalate to the finance manager. And, and refer to my text messages with the sales manager— confirming the financial terms — and my confusion…

It wasnt until, i was at my 4th.. FOURTH ####ING hour there, that she shared it’s because of a market adjustment.



$3k over.

I mostly paid it.

Want a trusting, reasonable, sales engagement, with a VW model knowledgeable staff?





Arrow VW, should be your last consideration.

[nik-]

I was pretty sure Volkswagen group brands can't charge market adjustments on new cars in Canada. They'll kill you on used, but new should essentially be the website price. Especially if you ordered it. Do you have that it's a market adjustment in writing? Because I would bring it to Volkswagen Canada.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by nik-

I was pretty sure Volkswagen group brands can't charge market adjustments on new cars in Canada. They'll kill you on used, but new should essentially be the website price. Especially if you ordered it. Do you have that it's a market adjustment in writing? Because I would bring it to Volkswagen Canada.

Yeah, I did some digging on that, and I concluded they’re legally allowed. VW dealership friend echoed the same. I trust him, beyond his bias.


Where you citing this from? I’d honestly, love to make them hurt over it.

[cam_wmh]

“Legally” perhaps isn’t the word, as much as allowed within the dealership & brand agreement.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nik-

I was pretty sure Volkswagen group brands can't charge market adjustments on new cars in Canada. They'll kill you on used, but new should essentially be the website price. Especially if you ordered it. Do you have that it's a market adjustment in writing? Because I would bring it to Volkswagen Canada.

lol, that can't be true.

Before Covid there was a great deal on a brand new Cornflower Blue GTI Manual on the website at a Calgary dealership. I love those and at the time was looking for a little commuter to blast around in. Drove straight over ready to write a cheque. "One GTI to go, please."

The sales team basically laughed at me for my naivety that the price they listed for the car we were standing in front of was what I actually expected to pay. They acted like I just fell off the turnip truck. Final price was thousands more than the price they had on their site, so I walked. I thought they were idiots and they definitely thought I was an idiot.