Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I can’t be the only one who thinks that thing looks wildly ugly.

Sure, the leaf stuff in the back looks weird. Swap the VW logo in the front to a snout and it looks like an angry pig with a wire jaw... but it's an option and a small move towards premium performing or premium trim/executive vans in North America. So I welcome it.

But those that drive vans aren't looking to be asking others to admire their vehicle choice in the first place. They just want a practical vehicle. This vehicle is one of the first true options for a performance van. I like that. Of the current van offerings, I just wish more of them had AWD as an option and more torque at the lower speeds. No need for high top speed.

The only thing I don't fully like about it is that it's a BEV. I like blasting it when on a road trip, so if I were to swap vans, I want a Hybrid or PHEV as a replacement.

Originally Posted by Slava

I guess I just didn't look that closely before, and EV's are just plain expensive.

Depending on how you use it, it's not too bad in the long run. My van fully loaded with stuff can be doing something like 12-16L/100km in the city with a ton of stop and go and idling in the small communities. That can then rapidly drop to around 7-11L/100 km on highways and major routes. I think this thing will be a great urban option. Plus once you get the performance option in an EV, unlike a normal van where one might typically drive conservatively to save gas, I think someone behind the wheel of this won't be able to resist flooring it on a regular basis due to how cheap it is to charge vs fuel up.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Slava

I guess I just didn't look that closely before, and EV's are just plain expensive.

These days any new vehicle is just plain expensive. The $50 bike I bought off a coworker 12 years ago and the old 06 Chev pickup are going to need to last another 20 years until this corpse expires.

[Erick Estrada]

New car prices in general are out of control regardless of the manufacturer or type of vehicle.

[Table 5]

Outside of a major economic downturn, I think the only way to get prices to come back down somewhat (atleast at the bottom half of the market) is by fully allowing the Chinese manufacturers to come in to NA. There's a reason why they are cheaper, but I think the market here may need a bit of a shock to the system.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Outside of a major economic downturn, I think the only way to get prices to come back down somewhat (atleast at the bottom half of the market) is by fully allowing the Chinese manufacturers to come in to NA. There's a reason why they are cheaper, but I think the market here may need a bit of a shock to the system.

I think China will happily subsidize their cars to keep prices down for the next 50 years to kill off any other manufacturers. Do I want my grandkids to be slaves for the CCP in 100 years...or should I adjust my buying habits? I think I'll go with the latter.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Has anyone been able to get a tire warranty for early wear through successfully? Or is this a hopeless cause?

Here's the situation - Michelin Premier tires from KalTire. These were the infamous models with the treadblocks that would expose new sipes as wear occurred. Except they reduced the tread depth of the tire when new by like 30%

I'm about 1-2mm from the wear bars having put ~45,000 km on them, which is a lot less than the 100K warranty. I've done my own change overs so won't be able to prove that was done annually. I could see all of the above reasons being used to deny me a claim.

I had a set of Nokian All Weather that wore way faster than the warranty would imply. Bought them at Kal Tire and I did get a prorated warranty exchange on them, which I thought was fair.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

After 7 years of waiting, the VW ID Buzz is about to get to the sales stage:

Isn't it just... a minivan?

I can understand there being excitement if they were to start selling the VW California here as a sort of mini-camper (although I gather there are some downgrades in terms of usability for the latest version) but... this is a minivan. We already have those.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Isn't it just... a minivan?

I can understand there being excitement if they were to start selling the VW California here as a sort of mini-camper (although I gather there are some downgrades in terms of usability for the latest version) but... this is a minivan. We already have those.

Not a EV minivan with lower urban operational costs and better performance to current minivans though. Minivans are also late to the party for hybrid offerings. I'd say for some of these types of features and options, mini-vans overall are something 5-10 years slower than other vehicle types like SUV and trucks. It's an afterthought.

I want a hybrid/PHEV with AWD for my next minivan. I and my wife actually drive in a way where the lack of AWD is quite noticeable in the winter and the constant commute on stop and go on <60 kmph roads gives brutal fuel economy in the city. It's great on highways and road trips, but the daily urban commute in it has some minor annoyances I'd love to address in a few years. I can live with the annoyances, but in a few years, I'd like to be annoyance free for these types of things. The extra performance would be a pure bonus, but not the primary annoyances I'd like to address.

I've looked into whether I could address those issues with some tuning and mods... but alas, such products don't really exist for minivans.

It's a minivan. It's not ultra cool. But it is ultra practical. The lower height and the doors are great and the biggest reasons why it's way better than an SUV or truck with young kids. I'd just love to have one that isn't so far behind in terms of city fuel economy and AWD (occasionally is an annoyance with uneven uphill/downhill roads with ice). I've sat in the new Sienna hybrid AWD which is pretty slick.

But I'd totally love minivans to go a bit further utility wise and really start to offer more features that cannot be found in other family vehicle types. If they go beyond just seating and sliding doors, I think people would take them more seriously. They might have to cannibalize station wagons to do that though, but I think it'd be par for the course after automotive companies max out on offering crossovers and want to try offering another option.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I see, so the appeal is that there just aren't people making EVs in a minivan format for the people who want minivans. I knew there were hybrids out there but I guess it just hadn't occurred to me that no one was entering the minivan market on the electric side. That does seem odd, it seems like there would be a market for them, lots of room for the batteries.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

New car prices in general are out of control regardless of the manufacturer or type of vehicle.

If you think new car prices are out of control now, just wait until all manufacturers start locking basic features behind paywalls.


https://www.motor1.com/news/718869/h...-subscription/

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I think China will happily subsidize their cars to keep prices down for the next 50 years to kill off any other manufacturers. Do I want my grandkids to be slaves for the CCP in 100 years...or should I adjust my buying habits? I think I'll go with the latter.

I mean I don't disagree with you.. there's always a trade off when chasing the cheapest thing. But as things are trending, new cars will only be for the well heeled, and many people will be completely priced out (which eventually affects the used car market too).

I'm not quite sure why things have gotten this bad (can't always blame covid/inflation)...maybe it's regulation bloat, or spending billions chasing EVs and needing to make up for it, or manufactures simply chasing fatter margins...but when a Honda frickin' Civic starts approaching $40k, something feels off. It's not exactly a "I'm gonna skip my weekly Starbucks and be able to afford this" type of adjustment.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

After 7 years of waiting, the VW ID Buzz is about to get to the sales stage:





Looks great - lots to like......except..

- 376 km of range (it's an EV)
- $77,495 CAD ($82,995 for the AWD) version

I love vans and all but the type to drop $85K on a car aren't usually the type to buy something that looks like a van on the outside....

This is going to be rarer than a VW Routan...

I like it. not enough to buy one new, but maybe a used one in a couple of years.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I see, so the appeal is that there just aren't people making EVs in a minivan format for the people who want minivans. I knew there were hybrids out there but I guess it just hadn't occurred to me that no one was entering the minivan market on the electric side. That does seem odd, it seems like there would be a market for them, lots of room for the batteries.

Yeah, the first EV truck was the Rivian in 2021? We are just starting to get BEV options for vans. I think the Ford e-Transit started being offered last year?

I think the Pacifica was the first hybrid minivan in 2017 ish. Almost a decade after hybrid trucks and other hybrids were offered?

I agree it's a little bizarre. The amount of companies that deploy vans as fleet vehicles and services vehicles should probably be significantly higher than those deploying pickup trucks. Thus the performance/torque of an EV/Hybrid and the urban operating costs of a weighed down vehicle and a vehicle on constant standby probably would benefit vans a lot more. Add in a few charging ports for tools... they'd potentially fill a huge need. But maybe it was a thing where people were willing to buy luxury (price wise at least) trucks vs a luxury van. Hopefully the drop in price helps this market a bit.

I really hope that vans don't continue to be left behind. Some of the "cool features in cars" in certain sci fi series, I've noticed could probably be deployed in a van like vehicle, but not a passenger vehicle or truck.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I like it. not enough to buy one new, but maybe a used one in a couple of years.

Here's hoping there's a lot of Boomers out there wanting to rekindle their youth. Although considering how long it's taken them to get this out, they maybe have missed their shot.

[kevman]

I want to know what they've done to tune the electric motors to make them slow and unreliable. If you're not going 80 in the slow lane or overheating, you're not driving a VW van.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Here's hoping there's a lot of Boomers out there wanting to rekindle their youth. Although considering how long it's taken them to get this out, they maybe have missed their shot.

As a boomer myself, I say a big nope to that massive info screen. That's a deal breaker for me.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Dion

As a boomer myself, I say a big nope to that massive info screen. That's a deal breaker for me.

I wish there was an aftermarket way to address this so that I wouldn't have to keep reading this type of complaint over and over and over. =/

It certainly seems like there'd be a market for this product.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I wish there was an aftermarket way to address this so that I wouldn't have to keep reading this type of complaint over and over and over. =/

It certainly seems like there'd be a market for this product.

Both of my vehicles don't have the info system and screen. I would love if there was an option not have them in vehicles. To me they smack of the potential for driver distraction. That and expenses of fixing them when and if they break down. A service manager told me they can be hard to fix and diagnose.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by kevman

I want to know what they've done to tune the electric motors to make them slow and unreliable. If you're not going 80 in the slow lane or overheating, you're not driving a VW van.

LOL, hipsters hypermiling and them being in limp mode as they're low on charge will give you that genuine Westfalia experience

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I mean I don't disagree with you.. there's always a trade off when chasing the cheapest thing. But as things are trending, new cars will only be for the well heeled, and many people will be completely priced out (which eventually affects the used car market too).

I'm not quite sure why things have gotten this bad (can't always blame covid/inflation)...maybe it's regulation bloat, or spending billions chasing EVs and needing to make up for it, or manufactures simply chasing fatter margins...but when a Honda frickin' Civic starts approaching $40k, something feels off. It's not exactly a "I'm gonna skip my weekly Starbucks and be able to afford this" type of adjustment.

For a lot of years vehicle prices stayed pretty steady while other things increased. Part of it could be that automation helped, competition from Korea which kept prices down. Plus subprime rates and longer loan terms made payments look low. The other thing is that vehicles have gotten to be a lot better with all the safety features and the like. So regulations have made newer vehicles more expensive to build. So today's Honda Civic is a lot better than the Civic from 20 years ago. So it stands to reason that today's Civic is worth more.

At some point people will slow buying new vehicles which will put pressure on manufacturers to get prices down, or pare back what they offer in the vehicles. But until consumers stop buying they can keep asking more. But the choices are getting more do I spend $2100 and redo the front end of my 18 year old truck or pay more than I like for something newer.