1 killed and 1 wounded on set of Alec Baldwin movie

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Why the hell was ED209 loaded with live ammo??

It's stop motion and pyrotechnics.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

My comment is 100% accurate. The union basically got zero changes around working conditions for a 3% annual raise. The only major change and which is minor at best is a 10 hour turn around from 8. That's it.

Typing on the go here...

It is obviously a complex issue but in general the union did nothing to address the big concerns around safety and working conditions on set. But the biggest concern around safety which they will never address is lack of experience. They, the union and producers push people through like a factory.

Fair enough. I just believed it was about more than money but also to address the working conditions. If the union let it's members down and working conditions mostly went by the wayside, I stand corrected.

As to the bolded, I guess this film highlights that.
If I read correctly, the armorer for this film is only 24 and it's only her 2nd or 3rd job running the armory for a film? Even if she started young, that doesn't seem like much experience at all.

Is it very expensive to do digital gunfire? Maybe it is the better way to go instead of productions taking the risks they have.

[Azure]

I admit that I noticed the more realistic approach that John Wick had, but would probably not even notice VFX gunfire in another movie versus actual blanks.

I think there are ways around it.

Some actors take a lot of pride in their work and WANT to be more proficient at their scenes, which includes proper gun handling. Keanu Reeves spent a lot of time training for his roles.

Alec Baldwin not as much.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Fair enough. I just believed it was about more than money but also to address the working conditions. If the union let it's members down and working conditions mostly went by the wayside, I stand corrected.

As to the bolded, I guess this film highlights that.
If I read correctly, the armorer for this film is only 24 and it's only her 2nd or 3rd job running the armory for a film? Even if she started young, that doesn't seem like much experience at all.

Is it very expensive to do digital gunfire? Maybe it is the better way to go instead of productions taking the risks they have.

I honestly have no idea what VFX's cost these days but it is not cheap.

I am not advocating one way or another for them just better training and controls in place. The greatest person at their job will slip after 14 straight 16 hour days.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

I admit that I noticed the more realistic approach that John Wick had, but would probably not even notice VFX gunfire in another movie versus actual blanks.

I think there are ways around it.

Some actors take a lot of pride in their work and WANT to be more proficient at their scenes, which includes proper gun handling. Keanu Reeves spent a lot of time training for his roles.

Alec Baldwin not as much.

I suspect Reeves would look more realistic regardless of whether it was VFX or blanks because of the training, at the end of the day it is the 'acting' that you are seeing, Reeve's has learnt to shoot realistically and so therefore looks realistic when he acts.

[2Stonedbirds]

If you think Reeves looks realistic when he acts, wait till you see Alec Baldwin!

[GordonBlue]

'Rust' Assistant Director Was Fired From Movie Set After 2019 Prop Gun Incident

https://www.newsweek.com/rust-assist...cident-1642426

Dave Halls, the assistant director on the set of "Rust," had been fired back in 2019 after a separate gun incident that occurred on the set of another film.

The production company for the film "Freedom's Path," on which Halls served as an assistant director, confirmed to Newsweek that he had been fired after a gun was "unexpectedly discharged" on set and halted production.

The incidents on the sets of "Rust" and "Freedom's Path" are not the only ones involving prop safety that entangled Halls.

[GordonBlue]

getting worse.

'Rust' crew members reportedly used guns with live ammunition hours before deadly shooting on set

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/enter...day/index.html

Crew members on the set of "Rust" used guns with live ammunition and engaged in a pastime called "plinking" hours before Halyna Hutchins was killed, founder and CEO of The Wrap, Sharon Waxman, told CNN's Don Lemon Monday night, citing information from an individual with knowledge of the set.

One of the guns used was later handed to actor Alec Baldwin, who fired the shot that killed Hutchins, 42, and injured director Joel Souza, The Wrap reported.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

getting worse.

'Rust' crew members reportedly used guns with live ammunition hours before deadly shooting on set

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/enter...day/index.html

Crew members on the set of "Rust" used guns with live ammunition and engaged in a pastime called "plinking""playing with guns" hours before Halyna Hutchins was killed, founder and CEO of The Wrap, Sharon Waxman, told CNN's Don Lemon Monday night, citing information from an individual with knowledge of the set.

One of the guns used was later handed to actor Alec Baldwin, who fired the shot that killed Hutchins, 42, and injured director Joel Souza, The Wrap reported.

Fixed.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

'Rust' Assistant Director Was Fired From Movie Set After 2019 Prop Gun Incident

https://www.newsweek.com/rust-assist...cident-1642426

Dave Halls, the assistant director on the set of "Rust," had been fired back in 2019 after a separate gun incident that occurred on the set of another film.

The production company for the film "Freedom's Path," on which Halls served as an assistant director, confirmed to Newsweek that he had been fired after a gun was "unexpectedly discharged" on set and halted production.

The incidents on the sets of "Rust" and "Freedom's Path" are not the only ones involving prop safety that entangled Halls.

LOL, "we have made the decision to wrap the set at least until the investigations are complete."

As if they could carry on if they wanted. They had already lost a bunch of their crew and were having trouble paying salaries even before a crew member got literally killed because of the unsafe work environment.

And they're "unaware" of official complaints about weapon safety? Crew members had literally left the production in part because of that very reason.

I hope this kills a lot of careers on the producer/manager side.

[2Stonedbirds]

It ought to result in jail time.
Criminal negligence causing death.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

It ought to result in jail time.
Criminal negligence causing death.

Yup, looking more and more like it wasn't an accidental discharge, but an actual pointing gun and pulling trigger situation.

I simply cannot get over the irony of this. For someone who has been so vocally anti-gun to actually kill someone because he can't follow the MOST BASIC of gun rules.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yup, looking more and more like it wasn't an accidental discharge, but an actual pointing gun and pulling trigger situation.

I simply cannot get over the irony of this. For someone who has been so vocally anti-gun to actually kill someone because he can't follow the MOST BASIC of gun rules.

If they were rehearsing the scene where Baldwin points the gun at the camera and fires as the accounts are saying then he would need to point the gun at the camera and dryfire, her job during rehearsal would be to be looking down the camera with the director deciding on how it looks, they all were told the gun was cold, ie no blanks let alone a live round, I can fault Baldwin for producing a cheap badly run movie that has led to this tragedy perhaps but not that as an actor he was relying on the armourer to hand him the cold gun the armourer had claimed

[2Stonedbirds]

It wasn't the armourer who handed him the pistol, it was the assistant director.
Too many hands on the firearms, and those hands didn't know wtf they were doing.
Mistake after mistake was made, rules not followed and lack of safety training resulted in a dip #### taking the word of another dip #### instead of doing his due diligence.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

It wasn't the armourer who handed him the pistol, it was the assistant director.
Too many hands on the firearms, and those hands didn't know wtf they were doing.

Agreed on the last part, but there are intentionally supposed to be multiple hands on the firearm before it is handed to the actor. I'm a member of a film discussion board where there are a few people in the industry. Here's the thoughts of one of them -

So yes, live ammunition is allowed on set. And as I said on page 1, there are several crew members who are supposed to check guns before they are handed to actors/actresses (the armorer, the prop master, the key grip, and the first assistant director). Every set I've ever worked on with guns present followed these protocols, and nobody was ever hurt. However according to the LA Times article, the people in charge on Rust ignored the safety procedures over and over again. Before yesterday's fatal shooting, there were '3 accidental discharges' yet nobody was fired from their job? Just boggles my mind. As we now know, this production's negligence and disrespect of the crew was running in other aspects too. The crew wasn't getting paid on time. They were forced to commute 100 miles per day in addition to working 12-13 hours shifts. They didn't even hold daily safety meetings despite guns on set. These terrible conditions were primary reasons there was nearly a nationwide strike only 4 days ago, that was averted at the last minute. I'm interested to see if this incident can prompt changes when IATSE and the AMPTP have their next round of negotiations sometime in the next few months.

[...]

I'm no gun expert but sometimes, though rarely, bullets can get stuck in the chamber, and then propelled out by the firing of the next round. That's how Brandon Lee died on the set of The Crow in 1993. Still, that tragedy could have been avoided if the weapons handlers on that set had properly done their job. Flash forward to last week. Indeed it was dumb to go out target practicing with the same guns that were going to used on set, however an experienced, competent armorer probably could have done so in a safe manner. Nevertheless there were several other ways this tragedy could have been avoided.

It is on-set gun safety protocol that if a real gun loaded with blanks is to be fired in the general direction of the camera during a take, then a wall of clear bulletproof plexiglass is installed to protect the camera from getting damaged. If there is no movement of the camera during the take, someone will press the 'record' button and then get the hell out of there before they call "action". However, if there has to be someone operating the camera, for example if the camera pans or tilts during the shot, he or she is provided safety gear in addition to being behind bulletproof plexiglass. Furthermore, even having a gun on set and handing it to actor/actress, real or prop, is a step-by-step process. First there is a brief safety meeting with the entire crew, going over the details of what will happen in the scene. The 1AD calls and runs this meeting. Then the weapon is presented to crew, showing them whether it is real or fake. If it is a real gun, the handler is then supposed to open the magazine or cylinder to show the crew whether it contains blanks, real bullets (which is extremely rare), or nothing at all. Typically, the prop master and key grip will personally inspect it themselves, but any crew member can inspect it if he/she wants. Usually then any unnecessary crew members clear out. Finally, when the handler gives it to the actor/actress, they go through the same steps, showing the actor/actress whether it's real or fake, and if real, whether it is loaded or not.

So here are some ways Thursday's tragedy could have been avoided:

1. The armorer/weapons handler, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, could have properly done her job, ensuring the gun that was to be used by Baldwin on camera was not loaded with a real bullet.

2. The 1AD, Dave Halls, could have called a safety meeting, allowing the crew to take a look at the gun.

3. Halls also could have opened the cylinder of the gun himself and looked to make sure it wasn't loaded before he gave it to Baldwin (Gutierrez-Reed actually should have done this, but she was not present at the time, god only knows why).

4. Baldwin could have asked Halls to open the cylinder so he could have taken a look before he received the gun. This does not pin any blame on Baldwin, because Halls said it was a 'cold gun' and actors trust their crew, but Baldwin still should have known better.

5. The producers could have allowed time for a bulletproof plexiglass barrier to be installed protecting film crew and equipment in the general vicinity of the action.

6. The producers also could have listened to the crew's complaints about the armorer. There was not 1, not 2, but apparently 3 accidental gun discharges on this set that were reported before the 4th one proved fatal. Reed should have been fired right away after the first one.

Thus this tragedy was a perfect storm of negligence and disregard of gun safety protocols, where everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong. And it just infuriates me as someone who works on film sets in a below-the-line position. I only worked with Halyna Hutchins twice, a short film in 2014 and another short film in 2017, so I barely knew her. But it enrages me all the same, because we below-the-line workers consider ourselves as one large extended family. And if it can happen once, it can happen again. And the next time, it can happen to me or a close friend. But hopefully there will never be a next time. It is a bit odd how this tragedy took place less than 4 days after IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees) nearly called the first ever nationwide, industry-wide strike in the history of show-business. And it should come as no surprise that the conditions the workers wanted to see improvements on were some of the very same conditions that were present on the set of Rust. Halyna would still be alive if there had been a strike. Her death is truly unfortunate, but if any good can come from it, it can be a rallying cry to eliminate the unsafe, oppressive conditions that have gone on for far too long.

[Hack&Lube]

I keep remembering how Mythbusters got it right on their tiny budget with putting up plexiglass shields anytime a weapon was fired during filming, that this production could have gotten it right.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I keep remembering how Mythbusters got it right on their tiny budget with putting up plexiglass shields anytime a weapon was fired during filming, that this production could have gotten it right.

Yes, typically sheets of lexan are used not plexiglass but the same principle applies. This just sounds ####ed up from the top down. Who the hell lets crew take target practice with prop guns? Obviously they were not properly checked afterwards or the prop master had no idea they were being used in that regards. Just brutal.

[Hack&Lube]

https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer...las-cage-film/

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the 24-year-old armorer who handled weapons on the set of Alec Baldwin’s “Rust,” was the subject of numerous complaints on her previous film just two months earlier after she discharged weapons without warning and infuriated star Nicolas Cage

• Gutierrez-Reed walked onto the set with live rounds of blanks and no public announcement to the cast and crew, breaking established safety protocols.

• She tucked pistols under her armpits and carried rifles in each hand that were ready to be used in a scene. Firearms were aimed at people. She turned around and the pistols that were tucked under her armpits were pointing back at people.

• She twice fired guns on the set without giving any warning to the cast and crew, as required. The first time she was demonstrating the gun volume to see if the loud sound would startle the horses when without warning the gun went off.

Like many in the Hollywood production community, Brumbaugh was distraught that someone so inexperienced was in charge on firearms the “Rust” set, and said it was a function of independent budgets being too tight to maintain safety. “The tragedy is it boils down to the producers,” he said. “It’s been happening more and more. As producers refuse to bring more experienced people because their rates are higher, they demand we take our time and (producers) don’t want to pay it. So they hire a newbie who is energetic and wants the job and will do it with less people.”

He went on: “The problem is she didn’t have help. I would have had minimum two more people. She was doing everything by herself in that movie and on the other movie. If there was one more person in the other movie the tragedy wouldn’t have happened. A second person would have inspected to make sure the barrels were clear.”

[Azure]

Considering the previous reports that she was unsafe with guns, all the mumbo jumbo about long hours, no help, etc, etc are a bit out of place.

While those issues still exist and absolutely need to be addressed, she's a bloody moron who shouldn't be around guns.

You simply cannot say 'oh I was tired, that is why I aimed my gun at you.'

Inexcusable.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Azure

Considering the previous reports that she was unsafe with guns, all the mumbo jumbo about long hours, no help, etc, etc are a bit out of place.

While those issues still exist and absolutely need to be addressed, she's a bloody moron who shouldn't be around guns.

You simply cannot say 'oh I was tired, that is why I aimed my gun at you.'

Inexcusable.

What makes this truly baffling is that she's a second generation armorer. How can someone grow into that job and be that clueless around guns?

I mean, I have extremely limited contact with firearms and would still likely be better at the safety part of her job. Anyone who spent five minutes reading about gun safety would be.