GOAT Across All Sports

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's so tough to say Brady has been the most dominant within the NFL though. The two Super Bowls against the Rams he produced a total of 23 offensive points. But he won both games. He made the clutch plays to be sure, but overall he played below replacement level in both games. His defense was just awesome both games. If dominance is the determining factor, someone like Aaron Donald is going to have a real good claim as the best ever. He dominates at an extreme level, and does so even facing non-stop double and the occasional triple team.

In general football is the hardest one to decide. Just look at Sunday, if you just flipped the offensive lines the Chiefs probably win by 22+ instead of the Bucs. Brady is clutch and makes the plays when it matters. But sometimes he's #### and has a great team to bail him out. Even in the NFC title game he nearly threw the game away, but the Bucs D clutched up when it mattered.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Scorch

You don’t think Brady had any influence on bringing in Gronk and AB? Undeniably Brady had influence on the Pats offensive roster too.

Nobody is talking about Brady “hand picking” the surrounding talent and are all hailing him the GOAT, yet for some reason people just can’t stop hating LeBron enough to admit he’s the reason why 3 Different franchises have their championships. You’d have better luck naming a year in recent memory of LeBron being in the finals than a year without him.

You were comparing Jordan and LeBron.

I have no idea why you're bringing Brady into that now? I don't even watch hand-egg.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's so tough to say Brady has been the most dominant within the NFL though. The two Super Bowls against the Rams he produced a total of 23 offensive points. But he won both games. He made the clutch plays to be sure, but overall he played below replacement level in both games. His defense was just awesome both games.

True, but does that ignore all the games he had to win to get in those positions, over and over again?

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Nicklaus is the greatest golfer of all time but Tiger transcended the sport.
Jordan did that for basketball and he is probably also the best player
Ali did that for boxing but we was not the greatest fighter.

So my Rushmore of athletes is Tiger, Ali, Jordan and then up for major debate IMO. Which maybe means there isn't a 4th.

GOATS of each major sport for me would be:
Orr
Jordan
Brady
Pele
Federer
Nicklaus
And i suppose Ruth.

There's one big asterisk beside Ruth's name when calling him the GOAT. Black people weren't allowed to play. Not his fault obviously, but tough to be the GOAT when you aren't necessarily playing against all the best players of your time.

Not calling him the GOAT, but as Clay mentioned, juiced up Bonds was so insanely dominant that his numbers were simply mind bottling.

[ResAlien]

Yup all records and players from pre integration eras are right out. Sorry boys.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by troutman

True, but does that ignore all the games he had to win to get in those positions, over and over again?

Oh sure, it's part of what makes deciding so much harder in football then the other sports. Baseball is statistically quantifiable so it's a lot easier (for reference here is the all-time WAR list, Ruth is #1 by a pretty clear margin). Hockey and basketball have fewer players on the floor making it easier to judge. Another thing in football is coaching makes a much larger difference then in other sports. Brady was lucky to end up in New England and not on the Jets for instance. Football is probably better to argue who the best team ever is then the best player. I think that's a little bit easier for comparisons sake.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Oh sure, it's part of what makes deciding so much harder in football then the other sports. Baseball is statistically quantifiable so it's a lot easier (for reference here is the all-time WAR list, Ruth is #1 by a pretty clear margin). Hockey and basketball have fewer players on the floor making it easier to judge. Another thing in football is coaching makes a much larger difference then in other sports. Brady was lucky to end up in New England and not on the Jets for instance. Football is probably better to argue who the best team ever is then the best player. I think that's a little bit easier for comparisons sake.

Most Super Bowl winners have a HOF caliber QB, with a few notable exceptions. The QB position is key, unless you have a legendary defence.

[bluejays]

Ali, Tyson, and Mayweather probably the biggest boxers of all time.


Gretzky because of his separation from any of his competition statistic wise is crazy


Jordan because of his big game play


Tom Brady because it's such a team sport and not because of recency bias, but he's carried in modern day, full teams by himself in a sport where it shouldn't be possible. He'd probably be my GOAT overall surprisingly because of the 7 championships in a team sport.



And my $0.02, but when it's all said and done if McDavid can stay healthy, he's the best hockey player I've ever seen at a high speed. I didn't think I'd see a player with Crosby's puck handling talent, do what he does at a faster foot speed and with bigger size. The only thing I think he doesn't have that could make the next player better is physical strength, to power through guys, but that will probably be the person we talk about in 25 years down the road. His talent is jawdropping though.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by troutman

Most Super Bowl winners have a HOF caliber QB, with a few notable exceptions. The QB position is key, unless you have a legendary defence.

The QB position is the differentiator if everything else is acceptable. As we just saw the Chiefs put out a below replacement level offensive line, and Mahomes needed to run for almost 500 yards behind the line (compared to 37 for Brady) just to not die. If Mahomes got slightly above replacement level for that game it's likely a very different game.

A QB alone is meaningless, see Rodgers, Aaron, who is very lucky to have cashed in his only chance otherwise his career would be seen as a massive disappointment right now. But even with the best QB in the league for 5-6 years the Packers didn't even make a Super Bowl.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

You were comparing Jordan and LeBron.

I have no idea why you're bringing Brady into that now? I don't even watch hand-egg.

Because it’s literally on the thread’s title, “GOAT across all sports”

The thread was made because of Brady’s dominance in the sport of “hand egg”

[You Need a Thneed]

People that I’ve seen mentioned in other recent conversations on this:

Bradman in Cricket - the only person who can claim a lead over second place comparable to Gretzky.

Simone Biles - gymnastics. They literally changed gymnastics rules so other competitors wouldn’t even try to do the things she does.

[flamingred89]

I think longevity is key in this decision. That’s probably one of the biggest knocks on Orr and Lemieux, is that their body failed them and they couldn’t play the full 15-18 seasons like Gretzky. Same goes for Tiger Woods. If he didn’t have his personal life issues and back problems, I think he’d be hands down the most dominate athlete of this generation. And that’s in a sport where there’s really no other intangibles outside of personal performance. Another reason why a I like the Ali pick too. Just athlete against athlete. No teammates. That’s part of why I also find the Brady argument so redundant. There are so many other factors at play on the football field and it really seems like a roll of the dice if your going to find success or not. I will say Brady is an excellent athlete and maybe the greatest leader on the Football field but for me it’s hard to label him the GOAT, yet alone across platforms.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Tiger does have the X-factor, he dominated the sport and won the biggest events while slamming every Perkins waitress he saw. The amount of focus it takes to perform at the highest level while cheating on your wife non-stop is remarkable.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

People that I’ve seen mentioned in other recent conversations on this:

Bradman in Cricket - the only person who can claim a lead over second place comparable to Gretzky.

Simone Biles - gymnastics. They literally changed gymnastics rules so other competitors wouldn’t even try to do the things she does.

Isn’t there some darts guy who’s the untouchable grandmaster of all dart throwers? No one is even remotely in the same stratosphere?

You almost have to stick to individual sports. Team sports leave far too much to other players, coaches, interpretation, and especially era.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's so tough to say Brady has been the most dominant within the NFL though. The two Super Bowls against the Rams he produced a total of 23 offensive points. But he won both games. He made the clutch plays to be sure, but overall he played below replacement level in both games. His defense was just awesome both games. If dominance is the determining factor, someone like Aaron Donald is going to have a real good claim as the best ever. He dominates at an extreme level, and does so even facing non-stop double and the occasional triple team.

In general football is the hardest one to decide. Just look at Sunday, if you just flipped the offensive lines the Chiefs probably win by 22+ instead of the Bucs. Brady is clutch and makes the plays when it matters. But sometimes he's #### and has a great team to bail him out. Even in the NFC title game he nearly threw the game away, but the Bucs D clutched up when it mattered.

I was looking at the overall stats for Sunday and they weren't as lopsided as the score shows. Mahomes threw for more yards than Brady, and KC actually gained more yards than TB all around. It wasn't an amazing performance by Brady and I don't really agree that he was MVP.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Of course he was MVP. You can't give it to a position group so the Bucs DLine can't win it. You can't give it to coaches so the Bucs coaches as a group can't win. Only Gronk and Fournette actually had a decent stat lines from the skill positions, but neither were great. Might be an MVP by default, but he was clearly the only real choice.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Slava

I was looking at the overall stats for Sunday and they weren't as lopsided as the score shows. Mahomes threw for more yards than Brady, and KC actually gained more yards than TB all around. It wasn't an amazing performance by Brady and I don't really agree that he was MVP.

Mahomes had to pass more, because they were well behind at half time.

[FireGilbert]

Devin White should have been the MVP.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who is the overall GOAT athlete
My answer: Bo.

I mean there has to be an argument for Jim Thorpe there, doesn't there?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Because it’s literally on the thread’s title, “GOAT across all sports”

The thread was made because of Brady’s dominance in the sport of “hand egg”

You made a post comparing Jordan & LeBron; I responded to that specifically and that only.

You then quoted me and made a bunch of arguments against Tom Brady, whom I never even mentioned.

There is no coherence in the sequence of your replies, it's all over the place. Talk about Tom Brady all you want, but it has nothing to do with the post I commented on or you quoted me on.