American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[PeteMoss]

Also for the record - Trump's secretary of health and human services went to Taiwan in 2020 and China did the same act about being all riled up about it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53719333

[Mull]

edit nm

[MoneyGuy]

Trump endorsing Eric No Last Name was not a mistake. Regardless of the outcome Trump will claim that his guy won.

[JohnnyB]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1554482274430844928

[Mull]

duplicate post

[Mull]

For all those hating on Nancy for this visit, I honestly think you are just blinded by your bias and hate for her, therefore won't give her credit for anything good she does.



Read this please

https://twitter.com/user/status/1554489414310821888

Pelosi just landed in Taipei. Let me offer a Taiwanese perspective on her visit: Her arrival here is welcomed. It is consistent with Taiwan's national interests & within the framework of the existing Taiwan-US relationship. (1/8)
Simply put, Newt Gingrich has already visited Taiwan as Speaker in 1997, meeting with fmr President Lee. This is established precedent. In that respect, Pelosi's visit is not ground-breaking & nor should it be treated as such. (2/8)
If we allow Taiwan-US relations & established precedent to be rolled back due to PRC's intimidation campaign, very soon all aspects of the relationship will come under challenge. This is consistent with past PRC practice of 得寸進尺 (give an inch & they’ll take a mile). (3/8)
So the buck has to stop here. We cannot give PRC leeway to chip away at the Taiwan-US relationship, or very soon we won't have much of a relationship left. Showing weakness in the face of PRC resolve will almost certainly backfire, with longer, more serious consequences. (4/8)

In terms of Taiwan's ntl interests, we have to be similarly clear-eyed. Enhanced defense capabilities & growing international support is what keeps the PRC at bay. Cold hard calculations of risk & insurmountable cost is what keeps Taiwan secure now & into the future. (5/8)
In this context, Pelosi's visit makes sense. Stronger ties with both Democrat & Republican leadership ensure continuity in the Taiwan-US relationship. Support for Taiwan - symbolic & substantive - is essential as we face growing PRC pressure. Other countries will take note. (6/8)
Finally, what about the CCP reaction? Already they have responded economically. Military and other actions may soon follow. But what's impt to note is that this is, unfortunately, already part & parcel of the cross-strait relationship today, with or without Pelosi's visit. (7/8)
To summarize: We cannot allow the PRC to rollback decades of progress in the TW-US relationship. This is not in Taiwan's ntl interests, nor is it consistent with shared interests in region. Opposing Pelosi's trip would create new risks, rather than mitigate existing ones. (8/8)

[GirlySports]

It's great she's there.

Now if Biden or Harris go to Taiwan, we've really got a story.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Mull

For all those hating on Nancy for this visit, I honestly think you are just blinded by your bias and hate for her, therefore won't give her credit for anything good she does.



Read this please

https://twitter.com/user/status/1554489414310821888[/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I]

I don't really have much of a dislike for Pelosi, but I am in favour of peaceful co-development between China and the West, and I see this much more as a provocative move at a time when tensions and relationships have already been heading in the wrong direction. A Pelosi visit is quite different from a visit by Trump's Secretary of Health, as should be pretty evident by the media coverage, by the hundreds of thousands watching her flight tracker, and by the response of the markets. Pelosi visiting is a much bigger statement, and it's an unnecessary statement imo.

[btimbit]

Anything that gives the middle finger to ChiCom is a good thing

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't really have much of a dislike for Pelosi, but I am in favour of peaceful co-development between China and the West, and I see this much more as a provocative move at a time when tensions and relationships have already been heading in the wrong direction. A Pelosi visit is quite different from a visit by Trump's Secretary of Health, as should be pretty evident by the media coverage, by the hundreds of thousands watching her flight tracker, and by the response of the markets. Pelosi visiting is a much bigger statement, and it's an unnecessary statement imo.

What is the same line for China? They pal around with Russia and Iran who are enemies of the US. Is that also unnecessary?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...es-2022-06-27/

https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-russia-.../31663080.html

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

What is the same line for China? They pal around with Russia and Iran who are enemies of the US. Is that also unnecessary?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...es-2022-06-27/

https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-russia-.../31663080.html

China's relationship to Taiwan is very, very obviously completely different from the US's relationship to Iran and Russia.

[PeteMoss]

Sure.. but what is the line that China can't cross?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sure.. but what is the line that China can't cross?

they obviously can't start a war but other than that, we're not petty like them. We don't get butthurt over names or products.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

they obviously can't start a war but other than that, we're not petty like them. We don't get butthurt over names or products.

Sure - but the arguments in these cases always seem to be that the US shouldn't do something that might annoy China or Russia. But China or Russia can do whatever they want and the US can't respond.

Taiwan is a very important partner for the US for technology with their chip manufacturing abilities. And the US are still very deferential towards China on Taiwan.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sure - but the arguments in these cases always seem to be that the US shouldn't do something that might annoy China or Russia. But China or Russia can do whatever they want and the US can't respond.

Taiwan is a very important partner for the US for technology with their chip manufacturing abilities. And the US are still very deferential towards China on Taiwan.

These arguments are made by people who are bought off by China and Russia. They're just trying to protect their self interests.

This administration actually wants to be and seems to be more hawkish over China than its predecessor. Imagine if Biden and not Trump started a war with China.

[Azure]

I don't like Pelosi at all, but she deserves major props for this. If you go back in her history this isn't the first time she has given the middle finger to China.

Biden is weak.

[JohnnyB]

Pelosi's editorial piece in WaPo about her visit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...n-visit-op-ed/

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't like Pelosi at all, but she deserves major props for this. If you go back in her history this isn't the first time she has given the middle finger to China.

Biden is weak.

I assume Biden gave his approval for this.. even if he says otherwise. Doubt she's going to go rogue.

[afc wimbledon]

If you dont think this visit was carefully crafted by Biden and the White House you are an idiot, this was a message to Bejing to think long and hard about how much they want to support Russia and piss off the US, this was an object lesson in Real Politic.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If you dont think this visit was carefully crafted by Biden and the White House you are an idiot, this was a message to Bejing to think long and hard about how much they want to support Russia and piss off the US, this was an object lesson in Real Politic.

And yet Biden can't come out and state that? Weak.

Another tactic would have been to say nothing.

"Pelosi is going to Taiwan? Did she get some Republicans to go with them"