2020 Selke Finalists: Bergeron, Couturier, O'Reilly. UPD: Couturier wins

[sureLoss]

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
2020 Selke Trophy finalists, as voted by @ThePHWA: Patrice Bergeron (BOS), Sean Couturier (PHI) and Ryan O'Reilly (STL).

[cKy]

ahh, the annual Patrice Bergeron award. I felt like I don't remember how this season even was for these players... who wins?

[agulati]

Bergeron would win this, just because he is Bergeron (and probably should win this, too)

[rogermexico]

Bergeron has already won this four times, which assuming I'm reading the Wikipedia page correctly, is tied with Bob Gainey for the most individual wins. Which is pretty amazing considering that the trophy was basically invented for Gainey.

Datsyuk, Carbonneau and Lehtinen each won it three times.

Where does Bergeron rank in terms of all-time defensive forwards?

[Roof-Daddy]

Aaaah, Ryan O'Reilly.

Should have been a Flame multiple times but will likely never be a Flame.

[Monahammer]

I think OReilly will take it this year- i know the voters aren't supposed to consider past playoffs but IMO he will get a huge bump for taking the blues all the way the year prior and maintaining his level of play through this season.

[CaptainCrunch]

But but Draisaitl

[Geeoff]

Strong crop. Could make an argument for any of them.

[codynw]

This is probably Couturier's year.

[Poe969]

Terry Jones is probably outraged right now and is making a case for McOvid to win it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

This one should be Couturier and it shouldn't even be close. But the other two are names, so it will be.

[Sandman]

I say give it to Couturier, he's been a great defensive C since he first broke in to the league, and since the other two have won it already, he deserves some recognition.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I say give it to Couturier, he's been a great defensive C since he first broke in to the league, and since the other two have won it already, he deserves some recognition.

Except it is supposed to be for this season, not career accomplishments.

As a side note (I have no idea what the metrics say) I heard talking heads on radio say he wasn't the best defensive forward on the Flyers.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by blender

Except it is supposed to be for this season, not career accomplishments.

As a side note (I have no idea what the metrics say) I heard talking heads on radio say he wasn't the best defensive forward on the Flyers.

I'm aware that it's not about career accomplishments, I was just voicing an opinion that if all things being equal.....

Not sure who these "talking heads" are, but Couturier is not the best defensive forward on the Flyers? He's one of the best in the LEAGUE, that's why he's top-3 for the Selke. Where is this other Flyers player?

[JD]

For something to do the other day, I was watching the Flames/Bruins game in Boston from this year. That could have been the Flames' most complete game all season but Bergeron just always stood out, always in the way defensively, down low in his own zone, or cycling on offense. Just a sublime player. On one play, Backlund came down low to strip him of the puck and Bergeron just shrugged him off and Backs found himself on his butt in the corner.

That said, I don't know who wins this award. It's such a hard one to handicap if you haven't watched a lot of each of the candidates. Stats don't always tell the story for defensively-adept forwards.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This one should be Couturier and it shouldn't even be close. But the other two are names, so it will be.

Based on what? A lot of the advanced metrics available should that he has easier match-ups and doesn't perform at the same level as the other two nominees.
What's your argument based on?

[ForeverFlameFan]

I don't really know who will win it, but I think it's between Couturier and Bergeron. I think Couts had a really good year.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Based on one. A lot of the advanced metrics available should that he has easier match-ups and doesn't perform at the same level as the other two nominees.
What's your argument based on?

First, philosophically, you need to be the best all around forward to win this thing, not just the best defensive forward. It would be silly to suggest, at this point, the way the award has been handed out forever, that offense doesn't matter. For me, to be that guy, you need to be your team's workhorse forward to qualify. Bergeron doesn't fit that requirement, as he's not even close to 20 minutes a night and isn't even close to Marchand in that regard, so it's down to O'Reilly and Couturier. And I guess you could argue that in O'Reilly's case, it is sort of close, because he is great defensively. But he was slightly better defensively based on the numbers I've been looking at (which are all Evolving Hockey metrics), whereas when you look at total two-way play-driving ability, Couturier more than makes up the difference, particularly given the team he plays on.

As far as miscellaneous feathers in the cap go, Couturier is also ahead in producing offense at 5 on 5, which as noted, does actually matter for this thing. Moreover, I don't generally put a huge amount of stock in faceoffs because their importance is overstated, but it is usually a consideration for this award - being able to rely on a guy to win a key draw in his own end in crunch time. Couturier won 60% of his faceoffs. That's fairly obscene.

What is your basis for the statement that he has easier match-ups and doesn't perform at the same level? Because the numbers I'm looking at don't back that up at all.

[sureLoss]

Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli
2020 Selke Trophy winner is #Flyers’ Sean Couturier.

[sureLoss]

Landslide win for Couturier

Backlund got a 4th place vote (Brian Burke). Lindholm got a 5th place (Kristen Andersen).

https://twitter.com/user/status/1304208565662633986

edit: vote breakdown

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MGX...FTYhlIOXV/view