Summer 2015 Prospect Ranking Final

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Strongly disagree.

If you look only at the fact that Hartley wasn't dressing him, then sure. But let's look at Adirondack...

Not only anchored the defense, but improved his offensive numbers (which they wanted him to do) from 0.19 PPG to 0.39 PPG. Pretty significant improvement.

Some fans are making way too much out of his lack of playing time in Calgary and are ignoring his work in Adirondack.

I see your point, but it's easy to argue that he did take a step back. 14 NHL games in 13/14 and his defensive game looked NHL ready. Than he spends another full season in the AHL because he wasn't able to steal a spot from a Smid or Diaz. They go down and we pick up Schlemko instead of giving Wotherspoon ice time. Good AHL season or not, that's a step back in my eyes.

[OBCT]

Hathaway would be my guess. I can't imagine an unsung defenseman (Kanzig or Sieloff) cracking this team ... there's just too much positional depth.

Depending on injuries, it will probably also be tougher for an unexpected role forward to crack the Flames roster this year than it was last year, a la Jooris. The probable full-time additions of Jooris, Shore, Bennett and Ferland to the starting line-up in the past 12 months might even make it tough for Granlund to stick in Calgary out of training camp this season, let alone Hathaway, Elson, Carroll, Van Brabant, or Grant.

I could see Hathaway getting a chance later in the season. All I've heard is that he's a prototypical Hartley guy: he's intense and energetic, skates well, and thrives within the Flames system. He may not have much upside, but he shouldn't hurt you at the NHL level playing within a specific role.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I see your point, but it's easy to argue that he did take a step back. 14 NHL games in 13/14 and his defensive game looked NHL ready. Than he spends another full season in the AHL because he wasn't able to steal a spot from a Smid or Diaz. They go down and we pick up Schlemko instead of giving Wotherspoon ice time. Good AHL season or not, that's a step back in my eyes.

The 14/15 playoff race adds important context to the difference in NHL GP between the two season.

Easy to run with the prospect when you're well out of the playoff race, as was the case in 13/14 when he got his 14 games.

Last season was completely different as every night felt like a must-win game and Hartley rightfully went with more proven veterans like Smid and Schlemko (who had 200+ games in the NHL prior to joining Calgary).

I think it's a bit unfair to judge his progress based on NHL games played only.

I did not really watch any of the Adirondack Flames games but I did follow the game threads and did keep up with the season discussion thread and it seemed to me that Wotherspoon took on a lot more responsibility this past season (more ice time, tougher match-ups, etc) and that he played these roles pretty effectively for most of the season. At the same time he also increased his point production considerably.

To me it seems like he took a decent step, but as I said, I'm making that conclusion without having seen much of his play. But whether he did or he didn't, I really don't think NHL games played should necessarily be the measuring stick.

[burnitdown]

Nice to see Derek Grant get named to the AHL all-star game, essentially after being ranked last of all Flames prospects in the summer. If you look at the top 5 prospects, it's a little unfortunate that none of them really had the type of season we were hoping for (yet!).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Nice to see Derek Grant get named to the AHL all-star game, essentially after being ranked last of all Flames prospects in the summer. If you look at the top 5 prospects, it's a little unfortunate that none of them really had the type of season we were hoping for (yet!).

I dunno, Bennett and Ferland look pretty dang good to me. I think both will be very important players for the Flames in the future. I wasn't expecting them to be instantly developed. I'd say both look exactly on track.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I dunno, Bennett and Ferland look pretty dang good to me. I think both will be very important players for the Flames in the future. I wasn't expecting them to be instantly developed. I'd say both look exactly on track.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Not saying they're having bad years by any means...and injuries definitely had an affect on Ferland's season...but when this poll was done, I know we were hopeful Bennett would be in the mix for the Calder and Ferland would be a fixture in the top 6 playing like he did in the playoffs.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Not saying they're having bad years by any means...and injuries definitely had an affect on Ferland's season...but when this poll was done, I know we were hopeful Bennett would be in the mix for the Calder and Ferland would be a fixture in the top 6 playing like he did in the playoffs.

Yeah I can see why some thought Bennett might be further along. The point of the poll wasn't who would be best the fastest though. Bennett IMO may still end up our #1 centre ahead of Monahan or he'll give us an insane 1-2 punch on LW with Johnny. Personally I like the idea of Ferland-Bennett as a combo, with Gaudreau-Monahan another combo.

As for Ferland I think power forwards usually take a while to develop. Ferland just looks better and better all the time. Hoping his play from the playoffs would exactly translate was probably a bit optimistic. But the sky is still the limit for him and that's why I voted him extremely high this summer. He can be a top two line power forward easily in the long run.

Poirier has been slightly disappointing and obviously the Gillies injury is annoying. Ortio did disappoint so far but there's lots of time for him to turn his season around.

[Red Menace]

I started voting Grant around #25 and everyone told me if he was a bum...
glad to see him get some recognition

[Strange Brew]

Interesting to revisit at the halfway point.

Biggest climb: Grant
Biggest drop: Ortio?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Interesting to revisit at the halfway point.

Biggest climb: Grant
Biggest drop: Ortio?

The thing with Grant is that he is almost 26. He's barely even a prospect at that age. Even if he's getting a point per game in the AHL.
Ben Street was about the same age in his first season in Abbotsford, and he was also a bit over a point per game. He never really produced in the NHL. But at least Grant brings other intangibles to the team other than just points (probably moreso than Street).

I think people are giving Grant a little too much credit as a prospect. He is nice to have around though. I'm sure our AHL team would be a lot worse without him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The thing with Grant is that he is almost 26. He's barely even a prospect at that age. Even if he's getting a point per game in the AHL.
Ben Street was about the same age in his first season in Abbotsford, and he was also a bit over a point per game. He never really produced in the NHL. But at least Grant brings other intangibles to the team other than just points (probably moreso than Street).

I think people are giving Grant a little too much credit as a prospect. He is nice to have around though. I'm sure our AHL team would be a lot worse without him.

Your point is a very good one.

The difference though, is that Grant has size and is excellent on the dot. He is a perfect bottom 6 C, whereas Street was not. And Street didn't have the skills for top 6 - we was the quintessential tweener.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Interesting to revisit at the halfway point.

Biggest climb: Grant
Biggest drop: Ortio?

I don't think a half season is good for ever evaluating a goaltender. Dubnyk had a season where he couldn`t make a save in the AHL, and the next year he was 2nd in Vezina Voting. I feel the same way about Mason McDonald.

Biggest drop in my eyes would be Tyler Wotherspoon. Looking very unlikely he makes the NHL and if he does it`s for another team. Seeing Brandon Gormley fail to stick in his waiver-eligible year and you see some real parallels.

Biggest climbers in my eyes would be:

-Kylington (Might be our top prospect now with his adjustment to the AHL. The question marks about his all around game don't seem to be any more than most guys his age.)

-Kulak (though I thought he was one of our better D prospects during the vote itself, but he had a great showing in preseason and didn`t look bad in the NHL despite being paired with Deryk Engelland. He could take the next step next season if he gets stronger.)

-Mangiapane (Though I was voting Mangiapane back around like, round 8. Really reminds me of bits and pieces of Paul Byron and Mike Cammalleri.)

-Sieloff (Looking like a 2nd rounder again, albeit still an NHL hopeful at this point). You can see what the scouts saw in his skating and passing when he was drafted. Offense still zero though.

-Ollas-Mattsson (I actually see top 4 potential in him now after seeing him at World Juniors, whereas during dev camp for example I didn`t see much separating him from Kanzig and the like). Nice breakout pass.

- Karnaukhov. He really did well at the prospects tourney, some underrated puck skill and a beast on faceoffs. Could be an eventual replacement for Matt Stajan if they don't go the Derek Grant/Bill Arnold route.

[JiriHrdina]

Half a season may not be enough to evaluatae a goalie, but the fact is you have a guy that many thought would contend for the NHL starters' job, regressing to the point that people are questioning if he will get a next contract at all.
Huge drop.

[FBI]

A lot of that was coaches/managements fault not putting him in a position to succeed either..
So disappointed, hope he can bounce back in a big way.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FBI

A lot of that was coaches/managements fault not putting him in a position to succeed either..
So disappointed, hope he can bounce back in a big way.

I am disappointed like you but I don't know if I agree it is coaches/managements fault.
Does he need to handed x many NHL starts to be put in a position to succeed? Because if so there are a lot of AHL goalies with some great stretches of play that have not been put in a position to succeed.
You hear very little talk of Ortio from the organization (that I have heard at least) but it would seem they did not like what they saw of him this year in practice or whatever, apart from his sub par performance in 2 starts.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am disappointed like you but I don't know if I agree it is coaches/managements fault.
Does he need to handed x many NHL starts to be put in a position to succeed? Because if so there are a lot of AHL goalies with some great stretches of play that have not been put in a position to succeed.
You hear very little talk of Ortio from the organization (that I have heard at least) but it would seem they did not like what they saw of him this year in practice or whatever, apart from his sub par performance in 2 starts.

I personally didn't like how many bodies were brought into camp to begin with, especially in the goalie position. Most clubs refrain from a 3-ring circus for a good reason. Even Hartley said he doesn't like a 3 goalie rotation. That's on management. Even trying to sneak Byron through waivers suggests they carried too many bodies into camp.

All 3 goalies struggled early on, not just Ortio. He was undoubtedly given the shortest leash of alll Goalie's. That doesn't bode well for his confidence and goaltending is 90% mental.

[Enoch Root]

Whether there were valid reasons for it or not, the fact remains, he wasn't put in a position to succeed.

Two starts in a month and a half to start the season, with most of the first month in the press box, is not an situation that breeds confidence.

[Domoic]

New THN article has Mangiapane as our #1 prospect...

CGY – Andrew Mangiapane: The OHL overager of the year, Mangiapane racked up 106 points in just 59 games for the Barrie Colts and snagged his first contract with the Flames in the process.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/pr...-30-nhl-teams/

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Domoic

New THN article has Mangiapane as our #1 prospect...



http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/pr...-30-nhl-teams/

Not only is Mangiapane not our top prospect, he was not an overager.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Domoic

New THN article has Mangiapane as our #1 prospect...

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/pr...-30-nhl-teams/

It isn't top prospect though. Check out the following quotes from the article.

"The following list is made up of the prospects I believe had the best seasons for their parent franchises"

"These are not necessarily the most NHL-ready players or the top prospects in the organizational pecking order"

They're just saying Mangiapane had the best season, not that he's our best prospect.