Godless Apostate

[peter12]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

What elements of the church were you most upset with?

Oh man, at the time, it seems so juvenile, but definitely the restrictions around sexuality, the constant yearning for the apocalypse, questionable views on Jews...
I would have these afternoon long fights with my parents after we attended both church services in the morning, and I think by my early twenties, I was just exhausted with people who could see absolutely no way to change their minds or see things from a new perspective. I'm sure they were glad to be rid of me as well.

[Badgers Nose]

Now that Sam Harris is behind a pay wall, I think I’ll get my kicks in this thread.

Thanks for sharing the content @Textcritic.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Now that Sam Harris is behind a pay wall, I think I’ll get my kicks in this thread.

Thanks for sharing the content @Textcritic.

I am happy to share. Be sure to watch all the video lectures on my channel...
...
... IF YOU DARE!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by peter12

Oh man, at the time, it seems so juvenile, but definitely the restrictions around sexuality, the constant yearning for the apocalypse, questionable views on Jews...
I would have these afternoon long fights with my parents after we attended both church services in the morning, and I think by my early twenties, I was just exhausted with people who could see absolutely no way to change their minds or see things from a new perspective. I'm sure they were glad to be rid of me as well.

Are you estranged from your parents?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Are you estranged from your parents?

Yes, we haven't spoken for over 5 years.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, we haven't spoken for over 5 years.

That's sad.

I mean I get it, but still.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, we haven't spoken for over 5 years.

Wow.

I am sorry for that...

[nik-]

I guess I'll be the one to say it. Ditching your relationship with ####ty parents isn't something to express remorse over.

[peter12]

Yes, it is very sad, but it's the way it goes. I knew from a very early age (10-12?) that what they believed was not something that I could believe. I attended Glenmore Christian Academy for most of primary/secondary school, and we had all the dumb Creationist classes, and honestly, I always sort of knew it was a feeble myth. I had no problems grappling with the religious mythology side of things, particularly as I got older.


What really got me, and still got me, was the morality piece. How could the Christians that I knew, who espouse a religion of peace and compassion, treat so many marginalized people so badly?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by nik-

I guess I'll be the one to say it. Ditching your relationship with ####ty parents isn't something to express remorse over.

Well there's complex layers to each person's lives and the family and experiences and relationships within them, so it's probably not as easily black and white as that.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well there's complex layers to each person's lives and the family and experiences and relationships within them, so it's probably not as easily black and white as that.

No it's not, but on the scale of impact, removing a toxic relationship is a pretty big weight on the scale.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by nik-

I guess I'll be the one to say it. Ditching your relationship with ####ty parents isn't something to express remorse over.

Yeah, you are right. Imagine the most intimate formational relationship of your life being with the most cruel, selfish, and judgemental people you will ever meet. Imagine being forced to be with them for around 18 years of your life.


Yeah, there is some black sheep stuff to my psychology that is tough to manage, but I am very, very glad I ditched that relationship.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by nik-

No it's not, but on the scale of impact, removing a toxic relationship is a pretty big weight on the scale.

Yes, I agree with that.

[DuffMan]

I'm glad my parents accepted me for the atheist I am, when I came out in my early teens.
Guess they thought it was my decision to make, and we really haven't talked about religion very much over the years.

[Tyler]

Anyone else baptize their kids 'just because' and feel like a total fraud in church? That was me LOL

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

What really got me, and still got me, was the morality piece. How could the Christians that I knew, who espouse a religion of peace and compassion, treat so many marginalized people so badly?

Agreed.

Hey dad, what do you think Jesus would say about you hitting me?

My relationship with my mother isn't bad, but my relationship with my dad is fractured and I don't reckon it will ever be fixed.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by peter12

What really got me, and still got me, was the morality piece. How could the Christians that I knew, who espouse a religion of peace and compassion, treat so many marginalized people so badly?

In many cases I think that it works as an excuse to treat people badly. I have read some books that suggest that protestant evangelicalism emphasizes saving the soul, and so they are willing to punish the mortal body as a means to that end. It's an explanation for why the Church Missionary society was happy to abuse children in residential schools, because the end game was salvation not 'bettering' these children's lives.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Agreed.

Hey dad, what do you think Jesus would say about you hitting me?

My relationship with my mother isn't bad, but my relationship with my dad is fractured and I don't reckon it will ever be fixed.

Oh yeah, I have some physical abuse memories from my childhood that are buried deeeeep.

[Fuzz]

It's a real shame religion can ruin so many families. Sorry for all of you. My mom and her sister were the family black sheep when they rejected it, I don't think my mom ever really reconciled with her family. Fortunately my dad did not subject us to his side of the family religion, so my brother and I were raised given free choice if we wanted to explore it on our own. Our church turned out to be family skiing and hiking every Sunday. I thank my parents for that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Did anyone else read this psychotic fever dream at the height of The Panic?

...

So, I found a link to the original cassette tapes on which this insane book is based, "Closet Witches." If you watch the Jack Chick documentary, you learn that Rebecca Brown sent Chick a copy of the manuscript, because she could find neither a Christian publisher crazy and credulous enough to print her pornography, nor a secular publisher to take it even remotely seriously. As a result, she sent it to the most gullible person in all of God's creation, Jack T. Chick.

Unfortunately, she never heard back about the manuscript, but Chick did hear about her "extensive experience" working with Satanists and the occult, and he offered her a job at his propaganda mill vetting his tracts for "accuracy" and "realism" on the basis of her field expertise with the occult. As he learned more about Brown's hyper-sensationalised background, Chick decided that she and Elaine—her Munchausen by proxy experiment that she dragged along with her—should record their "testimonies" on tape, that Chick would sell.

I found the recorded interviews on the Internet Archive:

Closet Witches, sides 1 & 2

Chick started promoting this taped interview in his tracts, newsletters, and mailing lists, and naturally, it became one of his best selling items. He then decided that Brown should write a book detailing her and Elaine's experiences. She reminded Chick of the shamelessly embellished manuscript she had at one time sent him, and the rest is history.

An interesting wrinkle about these recordings is that Jack T. Chick himself is the interviewer. Chick was notoriously paranoid (because of course he was), and as a result avoided being photographed or having any likeness of his on record for nearly the entirety of his adult life. (Chick was for decades convinced that agents from the Illuminati, the Catholic Church, and organized Satanism were actively attempting to assassinate him. He would often brag to his mailing list of frequent incidents in which God thwarted the murderous intent of his enemies to kill him and his family, and saved his life.) This interview is one of the only known recordings of Chick's voice.

Enjoy the madness.