The decline of professional sports

[nik-]

Joining in on the bandwagon here. The value for dollar is totally egregious, and only getting worse.

I have no need to relate to the players at all.

[burn_this_city]

Video games are more fun than watching sports on tv or in person. I find myself getting bored of watching NHL especially in the doldrums of an 82 game season.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Phil1111

rubecube is more than 80% right in identifying affordability as key.

Once fans abandon interest its especially hard to win them back to a team. Even with cheaper ticket prices.

People also have long memories and don't like feeling ripped off. Look at the music and film industries. Downloading and pirating would have likely happened to some extent no matter what, but charging $20 for a CD was an absolute ripoff and it pissed people off to the point where they had no problem screwing the music industry when they finally had the ability to do so.

[edn88]

I think that many of your arguments are pointing to Pro Sports being in great demand. If they were not then you wouldn't see outrageous ticket prices.

I think that Pro Sports is adapting to the millennial and technology age. Think Jays in 30 - I'll watch 2 jays in 30 versus a whole baseball game, even when I know the outcome.

Football seems to be embracing gambling and football pools.

When I was a kid I got to watch one game a week on a tiny (I'm guessing 12") black and white TV (after I walked home 5 miles in the snow up hill). Now I can watch any game I want in glorious HD. Live sports seems to be one of the last places that advertisers can throw their money, which shows that people are watching.

But I can tell you, as you get older, and as you have more things to fill your life, sports start to take a back seat - way more fun to do your own sports, or watch your kids play sports than go to an NHL game.

I'd say the biggest challenge is getting kids to play sports. In Calgary we have a shortage of rinks and ball diamonds.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Video games are more fun than watching sports on tv or in person. I find myself getting bored of watching NHL especially in the doldrums of an 82 game season.

This, too. I have no idea why the NHL needs to be 82 games. 60 games would be plenty. Do it like the Premier League does where you play each team twice, once in their barn and once in yours and be done with it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This, too. I have no idea why the NHL needs to be 82 games. 60 games would be plenty. Do it like the Premier League does where you play each team twice, once in their barn and once in yours and be done with it.

Its a primarily gate-driven league, the 82 game schedule has been carefully calculated. Not too many and not too few.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by edn88

I think that many of your arguments are pointing to Pro Sports being in great demand. If they were not then you wouldn't see outrageous ticket prices.

When I was a kid I got to watch one game a week on a tiny (I'm guessing 12") black and white TV (after I walked home 5 miles in the snow up hill). Now I can watch any game I want in glorious HD. Live sports seems to be one of the last places that advertisers can throw their money, which shows that people are watching.

Most of the numbers suggest it's peaked (ratings, attendance, etc.) and is in a bit of a decline. Now this may just be a blip and it ramps back up again soon but I'm not so sure. Keep in mind that we're only a couple of years away from kids who were born in the 2000s being the coveted demographic and they're consuming things much differently than even kids who were born in the 80s and 90s.

Anecdotally, among my friends, I notice quite a difference in enthusiasm for sports between those of us who were born in the 80s vs. those who were born in the 90s. It was much more common for my age group to attend sporting events in our childhood and we tend to be more interested in sports in general than the younger crowd.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

One one hand, you mention in item 3 that it is no longer affordable or a family thing. But your solution is to make it more elite?

To me, it's totally unafordable. There is no value proposition. I know these athletes make boatloads of money, the owners make boatloads, the media companies make boatloads, and we are expected to be happy compliant fans, handing over money whenever they ask? Games used to be on OTA TV more often, now you need an expensive sports pack.

They want more fans? Charge less. It's simple economics.

I completely agree that games are completely unaffordable.

In a city like Vancouver that is extremely expensive to live in it's no surprise that at Canucks games the stadium is not full and the atmosphere is a lifeless, snooze fest; nevermind the product on the ice.

The Vancouver Canadians are a great example of what a well produced, properly managed and affordable sporting product looks like. The stadium is beautiful, the food selection is decent, the prices are affordable, the owners place emphasis on customer service and they continually sell out games. Young people and families fill the stands, there is energy, people are excited, there are kids running around and it is in my mind the best sporting experience in Vancouver, and a ticket is often ~15 bucks.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/baseb...ticket-in-town

Baseball, however, is almost secondary.

The demographics of their fan base include the hardcore baseball fans, as well as young adults and, at the top of that list, young families looking at affordable entertainment options.

The most expensive single-game ticket for a seat in the WestJet Plus Zone — select box seats located on the first and third-base sides — is $25, as listed on the team’s website. Reserved grand stand seats are listed at $14 per ticket, and Wall said those prices won’t increase come playoff time.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Hmmmm...seasons tickets to the Flames or spend 3 weeks over Christmas and New Years with the Family in Mexico each year? No contest. I'll pick the trip every time.



Its also getting harder and harder to related to pro sports players these days.

These are the 2 main factors IMO.

Part of he relatability of sports figures is outside of their control though. We expect sports figures to be puritan boy scouts. Every time a young guy goes to the bar it becomes front page news. It's partially a societal change in what we consider "bad behaviour" and partially the constant scrutiny caused by increased access to the court systems and cameras everywhere. This is partially good and partially bad. I'm not saying that sports stars should go back to being chauvinistic rapists, but there has to be some middle grown and acknowledgement that we are dealing with human beings.

The attitudes of sports stars have also changed. I think that's partially due to entitlement issues but also due to the fact they are expected to work so much harder now. The conditioning of modern sports stars is insane. There's no room for the fun loving relaxed, yet insanely talented guy. You have to be a work horse that sacrifices everything. What athletes have to put into their sport to achieve breed a single personality type. Unfortunately that personality type is not overly pleasant or charismatic.

And yes, the increasing price of tickets is damaging sports. There are no more "cheap seats" with the families and characters. Having to spend almost $200 to see a game, after tickets some food and a couple of beers, is awful. Half the time you end up at a boring game or a blowout. It's hard to justify the cost. Both games I went to last year were Elliott games. In both, he let in 2 soft goals right away and the rest of the games were garbage.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think this is what makes public funds for the new arena so hard to justify as well. If I can't justify or afford the costs to go to a game (and I realize I don't live in Calgary anymore), what difference does it actually make to me if they're playing in Calgary or Seattle?

I'd agree with this, as it (rightly or wrongly) is a part of how I frame my stance on the new arena. I have a pretty good job, but Flames tickets are not affordable now, and I don't expect they'll be cheaper with the new arena - so what incentive do I have to back (or fund) the Flames proposed project?

[rotten42]

Let's not forget the price of a beer at a game either!!

[snootchiebootchies]

If pro team sports are declining, I don't think it's hurting the owners. The price of professional sport franchises continue to appreciate at rates way above inflation or the stock market or real estate. A coalition of buyers, led by Derek Jeter, just bought the Miami Marlins for $1.2B. The previous owner, Jeffrey Loria, bought the franchise in 2002 for $158M, so it was a 660% return on investment in 15 years. And the Miami Marlins is a struggling franchise both financially and on the field, who lost their franchise cornerstone last year to boot when ace pitcher Jose Fernadez died in a boating accident. But yet these franchises command huge prices. Like it or not, professional sports is a monopoly and also a status symbol, and that is worth alot of money to the billionaire class.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

If pro team sports are declining, I don't think it's hurting the owners. The price of professional sport franchises continue to appreciate at rates way above inflation or the stock market or real estate. A coalition of buyers, led by Derek Jeter, just bought the Miami Marlins for $1.2B. The previous owner, Jeffrey Loria, bought the franchise in 2002 for $158M, so it was a 660% return on investment in 15 years. And the Miami Marlins is a struggling franchise both financially and on the field, who lost their franchise cornerstone last year to boot when ace pitcher Jose Fernadez died in a boating accident. But yet these franchises command huge prices. Like it or not, professional sports is a monopoly and also a status symbol, and that is worth alot of money to the billionaire class.

If the franchise values keep skyrocketing while the underlying numbers erode away, it's also a bubble.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

If pro team sports are declining, I don't think it's hurting the owners. The price of professional sport franchises continue to appreciate at rates way above inflation or the stock market or real estate. A coalition of buyers, led by Derek Jeter, just bought the Miami Marlins for $1.2B. The previous owner, Jeffrey Loria, bought the franchise in 2002 for $158M, so it was a 660% return on investment in 15 years. And the Miami Marlins is a struggling franchise both financially and on the field, who lost their franchise cornerstone last year to boot when ace pitcher Jose Fernadez died in a boating accident. But yet these franchises command huge prices. Like it or not, professional sports is a monopoly and also a status symbol, and that is worth alot of money to the billionaire class.

While I agree with your general point, the Miami Marlins increased in value largely due to the fact that the city gifted them a brand new, state of the art stadium.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by nik-

If the franchise values keep skyrocketing while the underlying numbers erode away, it's also a bubble.

They say mega yachts are terrible investments but yet the billionaire class keeps buying them. It's a status symbol. Like being President of the United States.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How is that unsolvable? Keep the cap where it is, and it will solve itself over the next decade with inflation.

You can't just keep the cap where it is, it goes up and down by other forces and and the NHL's goal one would think is to get more revenue so the cap should go up.


Until the next lockout.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

But if the games cost less, then they could be one of those things you take your son to, correct? I think this is the other problem. Pro sports used to be one of the few things that was great for both young, single people, as well as people with families. It was something parents could afford to take their kids to and have a good time, but it was also something that a group of friends in their 20s could go to on a Friday night before heading to the bar. Now it's cheaper and easier for the parents to leave the kids at home with a babysitter and the 20s and single crowd have to choose between the game or the bar, even more so now with how wages of stagnated, unemployment/underemployment for those in their 20s is higher, and the higher costs of living.

This has been replaced by lacrosse. Me and a group of girls can go to lacrosse for $100.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

They say mega yachts are terrible investments but yet the billionaire class keeps buying them. It's a status symbol. Like being President of the United States.

No one is buying yachts as an investment.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

No one is buying yachts as an investment.

Yachts are a depreciating asset.

As are commercial buildings used by thousands and in constant need of upkeep.

But as it happens Sports Franchises are Appreciating Assets.

Would you imagine that?

[GGG]

I think saying attendance and viewership are down are using very limited data points.

Football and Gambling on football outside of last year has never been more popular.

NBA media presence has never been higher

Ticket prices have never been higher

Rights fees have never been higher and Facebook/Twitter are about to blow the doors of those numbers in the next round of agreeements.

Cord cutting is a real phenomenon but sports has been the most resistant programming.

The big change is that it has never been easier to follow your team without attending. And the quality of the product at home is amazing compared to the quality of poor expensive seats.

What I do see happening is sports remaining popular, the value of premium seats continuing to escalate but the value of non-premium seats going down. Also the death of season tickets will occur outside of businesses. It just doesn't make sense to have them. So I think the best path for the Flames is to wait 5 years until Facebook /Twitter change the face of sports. Then build a stadium that has 10,000 luxury seats with no public money.

Build the next Camden yards instead of the next Skydome.

The future is going to be about premium instagramable experiences that separate you from the commoner. The next generation wants a distinguishing experience over a lot of the same experience.