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Old 07-27-2017, 11:39 AM   #41
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Here are some quotes for an article for those that want to hear some actual statements from Pride and CPS on the issue:

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Calgary Pride outlined two conditions that must be met for police and similar agencies to join in the festivities: no uniforms (including any form of institutional representation, such as floats), and CPS Chief Roger Chaffin, Deputy Chief Sat Parhar, and CPS’ senior executives must take formal diversity and inclusion training.
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“It’s the participatory component, which is symbolic in nature,” Jason Kingsley, president and executive producer of Calgary Pride, told Metro. “To have uniformed officers and weapons in our parade goes against the historical roots of the liberation movement.”
Quote:
In a statement issued Wednesday afternoon, the Chief Chaffin said CPS is committed to engaging with Calgarians who feel marginalized and will respect the sans-uniform request.

"We are obviously disappointed with the decision that police will not be allowed to march in uniform, but we are not going to allow it to undo decades of progress between law enforcement and the LGBTQ* [sic] community in Calgary,” Chaffin said. “We have a far better relationship with the LGBTQ* community now than we did even 10 years ago and we want to keep that forward momentum.”
Quote:
Kingsley said it was never a question of whether or not law enforcement could participate, but how.
“What we’re asking is that they’re participating in a way that’s respectful of that history [of marginalization] and demonstrates meaningful ally-ship to those in our communities who are most marginalized,” Kingsley said.
The requests were made in what Kingsley described as an ‘extremely positive’ meeting between Calgary Pride, Chaffin and VOICES, which describes itself as ‘a local coalition of Two-Spirit and racialized LGBTQIA+ community members.’
“CPS were willing to listen to what (we) had to say about police presence and they were willing to support this decision,” said Tet Millare, a VOICES board member who was at the meeting.
...
"CPS was willing to participate in any form necessary to show their support to the most oppressed and racialized members of the Two-Spirit and LGBTQIA+ community," part of the statement reads.
https://m.metronews.ca/#/article/new...o-uniform.html

Good on CPS for listening and being supportive. I hope a lot of them show up if they enjoy participating in the parade. Hopefully more people can read these statements and educate themselves on the why. While some criticism is valid, I also think this has unfortunately invited the non-allies and racists to come out and soapbox, which is funny/sad given the situation.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:39 AM   #42
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http://www.calgarypride.ca/press-rel...cipation-2017/

I dunno, after reading this, I'm having trouble getting outraged.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:42 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
Meh, its their event and they can put in any messaging and include anyone they want to include.

I'm assuming that for the police they've made it attendance optional right?
They made it attendance conditional, actually. No attending under "institutional representation" unless police officers take THEIR "Diversity and Inclusion training" (The current 3 day course CPS officers already take isn't good enough, apparently...)

And yet, no mention about what the course they want police to take is. Where it is. Who teaches it. If that person is actually an accredited teacher. If the course is actually accredited. Exactly which officers are supposed to take or how they are supposed to find the time and/or money to have 2000 officers taking it...

I am honestly not sure how I feel about this, or how it'll affect my marching in the parade.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:47 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
They made it attendance conditional, actually. No attending under "institutional representation" unless police officers take THEIR "Diversity and Inclusion training" (The current 3 day course CPS officers already take isn't good enough, apparently...)

And yet, no mention about what the course they want police to take is. Where it is. Who teaches it. If that person is actually an accredited teacher. If the course is actually accredited. Exactly which officers are supposed to take or how they are supposed to find the time and/or money to have 2000 officers taking it...

I am honestly not sure how I feel about this, or how it'll affect my marching in the parade.
From my link above:
Quote:
Calgary Police Services Chief of Police Roger Chaffin, and Deputy Chief of Police Sat Parhar, in addition to the Senior Executive team of Calgary Police Services will engage in formal Diversity and Inclusion training, prior to displaying institutional representation within future Calgary Pride activities.
So that's not all officers, just the top people, right? And it states "prior to displaying institutional representation within future Calgary Pride activities" which to me means, if next year they want to show up in uniform, it would be possible. Or am I missing something?
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:48 AM   #45
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EDIT: What Fuzz said. It's not 2000 officers, it's the Chief, the Deputy Chief, and the Senior Executive Team. And it just has to take place before they have institutional representation again. And they've already agreed to it.

Not sure the point of making this into something it isn't.

Last edited by PepsiFree; 07-27-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:00 PM   #46
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To me, this is the Pride org, holding the CPS to the cultural changes they themselves have said they'd make; but have yet to do so. Sensitivity, bullying, equality reforms, sexism.

Do we not recall, only a few short months ago, the cultural problems the force has?
The resignations of a dozen female officers, rampant abuses, affecting minority/female members.

Has anything changed since? I can only find radio silence, other than a response of "denial" by CPS.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:01 PM   #47
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I'm still curious as to the nature of the course, and why the current one isn't good enough (I've taken a modified, 1 day version of it) for them.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:02 PM   #48
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Apparently it's not the responsibility of the Public to hold police accountable.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:07 PM   #49
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Are the police providing security/traffic control and everything else they do for an event like this allowed to wear their uniforms? If so, what difference would it make if some are walking in the actual parade?

EDIT: Also, if the Premier comes to march in the parade, which I assume she would, would her security detail be covered? There were uniformed officers with her in the Stampede parade.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:15 PM   #50
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Apparently it's not the responsibility of the Public to hold police accountable.
Classic Psycnet post. No relevance to anything. You've elevated this to an art form.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:15 PM   #51
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This quote gets me:

Quote:
“To have uniformed officers and weapons in our parade goes against the historical roots of the liberation movement.”
Shouldn't they ban anyone who has historically been against the roots of the liberation movement? I.e.: WASPs, religious groups, basically anyone who is straight...?
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:22 PM   #52
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once I get my Anglo-Saxon hetro male pride day parade going, I will invite representatives of both pride and CPS to show up their respective uniforms.

Anways, I guess I get where both sides are coming from - hopefully someday there can be a meeting of the minds on this issue and police in uniform will be welcomed and the pride organizers will feel like they are included on an equal footing as other groups by the police
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:16 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
I'm still curious as to the nature of the course, and why the current one isn't good enough (I've taken a modified, 1 day version of it) for them.
Who put together the curicuulum & hosted? CPS internal? External?
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by cam_wmh View Post
To me, this is the Pride org, holding the CPS to the cultural changes they themselves have said they'd make; but have yet to do so. Sensitivity, bullying, equality reforms, sexism.

Do we not recall, only a few short months ago, the cultural problems the force has?
The resignations of a dozen female officers, rampant abuses, affecting minority/female members.

Has anything changed since? I can only find radio silence, other than a response of "denial" by CPS.
I am typically very skeptical of the police. I think the culture within that organization is extremely problematic, in particular with the abuse you describe. Having said that, I don't see how prohibiting police in uniform, to what is presumably a celebration of inclusiveness, a good idea. It isn't about the organizers having the right to make this decision. It isn't about hurting the police's feelings. It is simply a dumb, counterproductive move in my opinion. They aren't showing up in full riot gear, goose-stepping down Stephen Avenue, for goodness sakes.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:40 PM   #55
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I'm interested to hear what your stake is in the game OMGWTF, because effectively everyone (LGBT community, mayor, citizens, CPS members) sounds to be against this.

There is basically zero justification for this beyond peddling to the BLM crowd
Nothing. I just think when you've burned a bridge, and some people feel the cps for sure has, it's not up to the people on the other side to allow you to repair the bridge how you see fit. I wouldn't let a bully come to my bday party just because he said sorry.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by LanceUppercut View Post
Are the police providing security/traffic control and everything else they do for an event like this allowed to wear their uniforms? If so, what difference would it make if some are walking in the actual parade?

EDIT: Also, if the Premier comes to march in the parade, which I assume she would, would her security detail be covered? There were uniformed officers with her in the Stampede parade.
Yeah they are apparently. I heard an interview about this yesterday and when he was asked their (Pride) representative had a hard time explaining why that was fine, but the sight of officers in the parade in uniform was going to be such a difficult thing for some people.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by OMG!WTF! View Post
Nothing. I just think when you've burned a bridge, and some people feel the cps for sure has, it's not up to the people on the other side to allow you to repair the bridge how you see fit. I wouldn't let a bully come to my bday party just because he said sorry.
Didn't this whole thing start because BLM bullied one the pride parades into banning cops?
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:47 PM   #58
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Apparently it's not the responsibility of the Public to hold police accountable.
Apparently you believe the leadership of Pride Calgary is above being held accountable itself.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:49 PM   #59
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Nothing. I just think when you've burned a bridge, and some people feel the cps for sure has, it's not up to the people on the other side to allow you to repair the bridge how you see fit. I wouldn't let a bully come to my bday party just because he said sorry.
That is so shortsighted its actually shocking.

Bully? Okay, the CPS' record probably isnt all Gold Stars and Perfect Attendance, but they havent exactly been executing pogroms against homosexuals that I'm aware of.

Maybe they havent been all that nice to homosexuals, but I'm unaware of any evidence to that either.

It seems to me that the CPS, with all their acknowledged warts, are being determined as 'Guilty by Association' as all Law Enforcement everywhere.

We live in Calgary, I'm not aware of CPS clearing out any Homosexual ghettos or anything. I must be missing their abuses of the Gay community because there must be some, but again, it seems like they're being attributed the faults of other Law Enforcement Organizations.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:00 PM   #60
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That is so shortsighted its actually shocking.

Bully? Okay, the CPS' record probably isnt all Gold Stars and Perfect Attendance, but they havent exactly been executing pogroms against homosexuals that I'm aware of.

Maybe they havent been all that nice to homosexuals, but I'm unaware of any evidence to that either.

It seems to me that the CPS, with all their acknowledged warts, are being determined as 'Guilty by Association' as all Law Enforcement everywhere.

We live in Calgary, I'm not aware of CPS clearing out any Homosexual ghettos or anything. I must be missing their abuses of the Gay community because there must be some, but again, it seems like they're being attributed the faults of other Law Enforcement Organizations.
Because I'm not apart of the community, and have no idea what they have been through, I guess I just have to take them at their word when they say:
Quote:
We acknowledge the historical oppression and institutionalized racism faced by queer/trans people of colour and Indigenous persons, and the potentially negative association with weapons, uniforms, and other symbols of law enforcement.
http://www.calgarypride.ca/press-rel...cipation-2017/

It's their parade, if they don't feel comfortable with uniformed officers marching beside them given past interactions, well, I'll take them at their word and say that's up to them.
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