Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Well all drugs are rougher on developing minds and bodies. There are even studies on how much more harmful caffeine is to kids and teens than adults, so this would make sense.

However I do agree that people developing schizophrenia probably have a stronger pull towards drugs. Although I would argue that using any drug to 'deal' with schizophrenia (unless it's given by a doctor) is a horrible idea. It makes it so much worse. I've seen this first hand. And like most drugs or addictions, it feels like it's helping at the start so it makes it so much harder to stop, or even see that it's hurting.

Basically if you're using drugs to deal with anything, it's probably a bad idea. That's the same thing alcoholics say about many of their habits.

There are obviously a few outliers surrounding medical marijuana, that aren't as accepted yet, but schizophrenia is not one of them. It's very dangerous.

I never said they should be doing it. I'm just speculating other reasons behind the stats. Is the rate of marijuana users with schizophrenia any higher than the rate of people in general with schizophrenia?

It seems to me like a young person with unknown/undiagnosed mental health issues would probably be drawn to drugs at a young age, and then as their issues progress, marijuana is to blame.

I don't presume to know the effect of smoking pot when you're schizophrenic. I imagine it varies as does much as the illness does. But is there actual data saying it can CAUSE schizophrenia?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Redford saying that pot is a gateway drug makes her seem as stupid as she looks....which is really saying something, as she looks dumber than a bag of hair.

To quote Denis Leary, "They say marijuana leads to other drugs. No, it leads to f'ing carpentry". Or the great Walter White, "Smoking marijuana, eating Cheetos and masturbating do not constitute "plans" in my book".

It's not a gateway to anything but listening to Phish. Now while I think that should be illegal, there's no way pot should be.

Legalize it, tax it.

Pot is a gateway drug if you ignore the existence of alcohol

[Senator Clay Davis]

[rubecube]

So now the Conservatives are campaigning on the grounds that the Liberals are not the Liberals they were 25 years ago...back when Conservatives were complaining that the Liberals were corrupt and incompetent?

[Trumbull]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I never said they should be doing it. I'm just speculating other reasons behind the stats. Is the rate of marijuana users with schizophrenia any higher than the rate of people in general with schizophrenia?

It seems to me like a young person with unknown/undiagnosed mental health issues would probably be drawn to drugs at a young age, and then as their issues progress, marijuana is to blame.

I don't presume to know the effect of smoking pot when you're schizophrenic. I imagine it varies as does much as the illness does. But is there actual data saying it can CAUSE schizophrenia?

I'm sure drugs like marijuana and alcohol that alter one's state of mind would be a bad thing if that person's mind were predisposed to it already. But that's something a person should be considering before they take these drugs in the first place. I don't see why it should affect the legal state of marijuana merely because marijuana might trigger a mental state Person X is more predisposed to than Person Z.

[jammies]

Trudeau won't be happy until marijuana is MANDATORY!

The problem I have with attack ads is that they assume people are stupid and driven by emotion instead of logic. The other problem I have is that the assumption is all too often proven correct.

[Trumbull]

Originally Posted by jammies

Trudeau won't be happy until marijuana is MANDATORY!

The problem I have with attack ads is that they assume people are stupid and driven by emotion instead of logic. The other problem I have is that the assumption is all too often proven correct.

Precisely. Just look at the Redskins topic.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I like how that when pot is legal and in stores, the kid is only smoking a J and not having a bottle of Jack and a pack of smokes too.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Not the same Liberal party? Is that supposed to be a negative ad?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Here's how out of context that quote is:

The quote used in the flyer comes from an interview Karygiannis gave the Globe and Mail some weeks later and had nothing to do with Trudeau’s marijuana policy. He was reminiscing about his reputation as a bare-knuckle political organizer, particularly among ethnic communities, and bemoaning what he sees as the current tendency to eschew hardball tactics and take ethnic groups for granted.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/06/18/c...ection-flyers/

[MarchHare]

So a funny thing about that ad:

The comment is taken completely out-of-context (shocking!). The quote from the former Liberal MP was not about Trudeau's marijuana policy at all, but rather about the style of campaigning now vs. 25 years ago. It also has nothing to do with "why he resigned", as the attack ad claims.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...-to-smoke-pot/

The governing party has blanketed the riding with a flyer that features a photo of Jim Karygiannis and a quote from him: “This is not the same Liberal party we knew. The party has changed.”

The flyer attributes the quote to “your former Liberal MP of 25 years” explaining why he decided to resign last April, triggering a byelection on June 30.

[...]

Microscopic print reveals that the flyer was “authorized by the registered agent of the Conservative Party of Canada.” But Karygiannis believes it was intended to appear as though it came from him.

“This is an all-time low for the Conservatives,” he said in an interview, calling the flyer a “very low and distasteful attack” that misrepresents him and his reason for leaving federal politics.

Karygiannis said he’s still a member of the Liberal party and has endorsed Arnold Chan, the Liberal candidate in the riding. He’s been trying to stay out of the byelection contest but said the Conservative flyer has “made me want to go vote for Arnold twice because of what they did.”

When he announced his resignation in April, Karygiannis said he wanted to be closer to his family and that he intends to run for a spot on city council in this fall’s municipal election.

The quote used in the flyer comes from an interview Karygiannis gave the Globe and Mail some weeks later and had nothing to do with Trudeau’s marijuana policy. He was reminiscing about his reputation as a bare-knuckle political organizer, particularly among ethnic communities, and bemoaning what he sees as the current tendency to eschew hardball tactics and take ethnic groups for granted.

Edit: beaten by SebC

[Erick Estrada]

Context or not that quote is his and he's simply backtracking.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Corelation does not equal causation.

Yeah - because they thought they'd waste years of research studies, millions of dollars of grants, hospital hours, nurse and patient hours and Dr.'s time when they could have gotten that little tidbit from you. If only everyone involved in all these studies had come to you first for that little gem!

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows...ID/1398511775/

Marijuana cannot cause mental illness on its own. It is one of a number of risk factors, which include: 1) a family history of mental illness, 2) a "psychosis-prone" personality, 3) a history of childhood trauma, 4) where you live, since urban dwellers have a higher rate of schizophrenia.

Scientists liken a teen's brain to his or her messy bedroom. It's a tangled jumble of circuits and it needs to go through a streamlining process to work more efficiently - a process called 'neural pruning'. Scientists believe any substance, like marijuana, that interferes with that untangling of the brain can produce long-lasting and potentially devastating psychological effects.

Dr. Jim Van O's research shows that, "If you use marijuana regularly, your chances of becoming schizophrenic are twice as great as someone who does not smoke marijuana. If you use marijuana before the age of 16, you are four times as likely to become schizophrenic."

One question facing researchers is the 'chicken & egg' scenario: is it possible that marijuana use could be an attempt to ease the earliest or 'prodromal' symptoms of mental illness? The weight of evidence suggests that marijuana use precedes the illness, but selfmedication for pre-existing mental instability is part of the research considerations.

What if there was a simple genetic test that could tell us exactly which kids are at risk for marijuana-induced psychosis? There may be one soon. A gene called COMT, discovered in 2002, regulates dopamine levels. There are two variants of COMT, and your susceptibility to marijuana-induced psychosis depends on which combination of variants you have.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah, could just as easily say:

"There was a documentary about younger people developing schizophrenia after being alive for a while"

Maybe some people starting smoking in order to deal with their growing schizophrenia.

That's not what they're saying at all. It's if you have a susceptibility to certain mental illness smoking weed can immensely increase onset of said mental illness and actually make it worse than it would have been.

It's becoming more common knowledge that individuals have risk factors for mental illness, they might not ever experience onset, but the risk factor is there. The research is showing that marijuana use can increase the odds of this onset. Drastically.

[Trumbull]

What exactly is wrong with alcohol, cigs, and marijuana in local stores anyways?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

It's becoming more common knowledge that individuals have risk factors for mental illness, they might not ever experience onset, but the risk factor is there. The research is showing that marijuana use can increase the odds of this onset. Drastically.

Is it?

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by nik-

Is it?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20021077

Although the precise cause of schizophrenia isn't known, certain factors seem to increase the risk of developing or triggering schizophrenia, including:

• Having a family history of schizophrenia
• Exposure to viruses, toxins or malnutrition while in the womb, particularly in the first and second trimesters
• Increased immune system activation, such as from inflammation or autoimmune diseases
• Older age of the father
• Taking mind-altering (psychoactive or psychotropic) drugs during teen years and young adulthood

If you have a family history of schizophrenia and you have children with someone who also has a family history the child is more likely to have a higher risk of developing mental illness.

Said child should not be smoking marijuana.

[nik-]

"certain factors seem" is pretty far from research "showing" anything.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

That's not what they're saying at all. It's if you have a susceptibility to certain mental illness smoking weed can immensely increase onset of said mental illness and actually make it worse than it would have been.

It's becoming more common knowledge that individuals have risk factors for mental illness, they might not ever experience onset, but the risk factor is there. The research is showing that marijuana use can increase the odds of this onset. Drastically.

Marijuana is pretty much available right now for people who want it. The legality of it is a completely different issue and doesn't necessarily change who has access to the drug. If anything, I would trust someone at a liquor store selling it, than some Hell's Angels associate at a night club or pool hall.

Not too mention, there is a myriad of diseases that people have genetic predispositions to but we don't make triggers for those illegal.

As a responsible and mature adult, I should be able to choose if I want to use marijuana for recreational or medicinal purposes without the fear of crimination. Someone else's unfortunate genetic situation shouldn't be a determination for the rights of people without that condition. I have a genetic predisposition to heart disease, so why aren't there laws in place to protect me from bacon?

[ranchlandsselling]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23656852

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24831390

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24461684

An earlier age of onset of#schizophrenia#has been identified as a poor prognostic indicator. The current study examines the interaction effect of gender and#cannabis#use on age of onset of#schizophrenia#and schizoaffective disorder. This research forms part of a two-centre epidemiological study of first-episode psychosis and included individuals with a diagnosis of#schizophrenia#or schizoaffective disorder and an age of onset between age 16 and 45. Kaplan-Meier curves and Cox proportional hazards regression were used to compare the effects of#cannabis#use and gender on age of first symptom of#schizophrenia. Akaike's information criteria were used to find the model with the best fit to the data.#Cannabisusers had an earlier age of first symptom than non-users. There was an interaction with gender; the gender difference in age of onset was diminished in#cannabis#smokers compared with non-cannabis#smokers. The model including#cannabisuse interacting with gender was the most parsimonious model, followed by#cannabis#use alone. The addition of other illegal drug use did not improve the model.#Cannabis#use is associated with an earlier age of onset of#schizophrenia, and the gender difference in age of onset is reduced among#cannabis#smokers.Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved.

Originally Posted by nik-

"certain factors seem" is pretty far from research "showing" anything.

I generally find people who attemp to disagree with this or form opinions on the subject are for the legalization or simply smoked pot when they were young and with bias assume it therefore must be a non-issue. Why do you disagree, what research have you read or participated in that shows otherwise?

Who do you know that has done research suggesting that there is zero link between the use of cannibin and onset of mental illness?

And if your for the legalization of marajuana try not to let your bias cloud your judgement because i'm actually completely indifferent to it and without bias. I just waded into the thread to see if there was anything interesting and came across a few ignorant statements.