2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[habernac]

You aren't getting Pacioretty + for Brodie.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Smarmy comments in the press when you decide you want out of town is not leadership nor is it a winner’s behaviour.

Wait wait wait. O'Reilly is a loser because he told the press that he didn't like to lose?

If he gave any other answer, you'd be jumping on him for being okay losing.

Unless there's some comments that I missed (I'm talking about him losing the love for his game because he doesn't like to lose), I don't know why you would have issues with what he said. I'd hope that Treliving sent anyone packing on the Flames if they told him they weren't disappointed with this season and happy with the results.

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Re: Pacioretty for Brodie - how does that solve our RW issues? Pacioretty is a left shot.

I would prefer Gallagher

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by habernac

You aren't getting Pacioretty + for Brodie.

30+ goal scoring Pacioretty, nope not a chance. Funny thing is he had 17 goals this year. His value is down.

Also, I wouldn't be speaking in absolutes about who's getting what for what with the GM you have at the helm of your team.

I remember you scoffing at the thought of Subban being available, and then ####ting your pants when he got dealt straight up for Weber.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by habernac

You aren't getting Pacioretty + for Brodie.

Didn't know Mtl had a good gm

[habernac]

Point taken on Bergevin being a dolt. In the past 5 years, only 9 guys have more goals than Pacioretty.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by habernac

You aren't getting Pacioretty + for Brodie.

Depends on what the Habs want in return for Pacioretty.

If they want Picks and Prospects they'd get a decent haul, but for a bonafide top 4 d-man they are going to be in tough since A) There is only a year left on the contract, & B) He had a pretty bad year for a guy that is going to be 30+ next year.

I think for a top 4 d-man they will have to add a sweetener since teams making those "hockey" trades will want more term or a guy that had a better year last year, and d-men hold more value than forwards.

And in terms of his scoring rank in the last 5 years he ranks 10th, last 3 years he ranks 27th, last two years he ranks 42nd, and last year he ranked ~130th.

So it's looking like he went from being elite goalscorer 5 years ago, to more of an average one now, and that trend is alarming when the guy is turning 30.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by habernac

You aren't getting Pacioretty + for Brodie.

Good. Flames can do better. I don't think Pacioretty is a bad player but he's beginning the downside of his career while Brodie is still in his prime.

[Bourque's Twin]

I'm a firm believer that Brodie deserves a full season on the right side. What's the worst case scenario? He performs as bad as this year, is 1 year older, and has 1 less year on his contract?

The upside is that he returns to the old Brodie, who is a solid #2 who can put up 40 - 50 points.

I agree that Giordano was a contributor to his performance, but what about when Giordano went down and Brodie played with Engelland? He was still performing much better than he is now.

I also think a new coach could help Bennett and Jankowski grow into more complete players. If that occurs, then the Flames depth at forward looks much better.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Bennett - Backlund - Tkachuk
? - Jankowski - Frolik
? - Shore - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
? - Brodie
? - Hamonic

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

You aren’t wrong that he plays LW.

But I’ve seen this left shot comment a lot. 2/3rds of hockey players shoot left. You can fill the RW hope with a right winger. Handedness doesn’t matter.

The issue isn't that 2/3rds of hockey players shoot left. The issue is that in our current top nine forward group, if you made of a list of every forward that could ostensibly score 15+ goals next year, you have

Monahan (LHS)
Ferland (LHS)
Tkachuk (LHS)
Gaudreau (LHS)
Bennett (LHS)
Backlund (LHS)
Jankowski (LHS)
Frolik (LHS)
Versteeg (RHS* - not under contract and didn't exactly play last year)

If you dig into our AHL pool for potential future 20 goal scorers you probably just have:
Mangiapane (LHS)
Foo (RHS, and we're being optimistic)

The issue is this: Our biggest hole last year, and really since Iginla left, is that our power play doesn't have a right handed shot star forward.

Look at current playoff teams and you have some semblance of balance on that front - of course there are primarily going to be left shot forwards but there are key right shot forwards on each of their PPs:


Coyle
Pavelski
MacKinnon
Palmieri / Zajac
Ovechkin / Oshie
Nylander / Marner
Panarin / Atkinson
Kessel / Hornqvist
Marchessault / Perron
Carter / Toffoli / Brown
Stamkos / Johnson / Point
Laine / Scheifele / Wheeler
Giroux / Patrick / Simmonds
Getzlaf / Rakell / Perry / Kesler
Bergeron / Krejci / Pastrnak / Backes
Forsberg / Johansen / Arvidsson / Turris

It's brutal how our Power Play RHS is.. Troy Brouwer - The only playoff team as unbalanced as us on their PP is Anaheim as they have almost exclusively right shots - but they still have a left shot guy in Adam Henrique who is better than than any RHS we have.

Acquiring Pacioretty doesn't solve a lot, because we're still stuck with a whole bunch of left shots. Sure he would be a nice addition but giving up Brodie for a guy who doesn't actually solve a real issue is just... silly. Not only that but Brodie playing his game is more impactful than Giordano or Hamilton - he's not a generic #3 defenseman as people are treating him.

And while you're hypothetically adding a, let's say 35 goal scorer in Pacioretty, you're not just adding 35 goals. You're taking scoring opportunities away from say, a 21 goal scorer in Ferland (who may have scored more if Monahan were healthy). A RHS forward (doesn't need to be a RW - I'd be plenty interested in guys like LW Ilya Kovalchuk or C Nolan Patrick) is actually adding goals that no one is scoring right now because there is no one presently filling that niche. RHSs also have different passing angles - for instance Perron led the VGK in power play assists even though he's not as good overall as some of his teammates. even last year, Versteeg was arguably our most productive PP player. Handedness matters when you need quick decisions.

We don't need perfect righty/left balance but we sure as heck need someone. Unless of course, Matthew Phillips blows the roof off training camp. That'd be nice. And so not-Flames.

EDIT - though I guess you could make the argument Brouwer is just as effective as Charlie Coyle on the power play. But I don't think anyone is trying to emulate the Minnesota Wild Power Play. Or generally emulate anything about the Minnesota Wild.

[Monahan For Mayor]

^ That forward corp still looks weak.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Geez. The Habs have FOUR 2nd rounders in this draft.

Brodie for Pacioretty and a 2nd (Habs, Hawks, Leafs, Caps) works for me.

In this sense a logical trade partner, we need at least a 2nd rounder in this draft. At least.

[Anduril]

Don't know how the handedness doesn't matter. When you've only got the same angle to pass/shoot from at any part of the I've, it severely limits option, chances and ability to finish.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Don't know how the handedness doesn't matter. When you've only got the same angle to pass/shoot from at any part of the I've, it severely limits option, chances and ability to finish.

Handedness is mainly an issue for defencemen in the transition area.

[jayswin]

Pacioretty is an enigma. I know he can score goals, but it sure seems to be lining up as a big bomb for anyone who gives up significant assets for him.

29 years old, starting to show possible post apex cracks (only 17 goals this year) and controls his own destiny next off season. I'm staying the hell away from that, myself.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Handedness is mainly an issue for defencemen in the transition area.

It's also an issue for the forwards on the PP when backdoor plays with a guy on his off wing is able to convert chances versus a strong side winger needing the extra moment to corral the pass, dramatically reducing the conversion chance.

It's also limiting in which direction you can have the high slot one timer when trying to shift a scorer into open space when the pass angle and direction is predictable when the passer and shooter are of the same hand.

Also for faceoffs, those who take draws on their strong side have a slight advantage in general.

[jayswin]

There's really only two scenarios with Pacioretty's performance next season if you trade for him.

A) He bounces back scores a good amount - We now have to sign a 30 year old player early to a long term, high dollar contract that's almost guaranteed to suck as most 30 year old contracts do.

B) He doesn't bounce back, and then we're sitting here asking why we gave up a valuable asset for one year of a guy.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I'm a firm believer that Brodie deserves a full season on the right side. What's the worst case scenario? He performs as bad as this year, is 1 year older, and has 1 less year on his contract?

The upside is that he returns to the old Brodie, who is a solid #2 who can put up 40 - 50 points.

I agree that Giordano was a contributor to his performance, but what about when Giordano went down and Brodie played with Engelland? He was still performing much better than he is now.

I also think a new coach could help Bennett and Jankowski grow into more complete players. If that occurs, then the Flames depth at forward looks much better.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Bennett - Backlund - Tkachuk
? - Jankowski - Frolik
? - Shore - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
? - Brodie
? - Hamonic

https://flamesnation.ca/2015/09/19/b...-good-pairing/

[Scroopy Noopers]

I’m going to happy with a RW acquisition regardless which way he shoots. The team needs goals, there aren’t countless options available out there.

[GioforPM]

BTW, Brodie/Engelland isn’t a good argument for putting Brodie on the right because Brodie was on the k ft in that pairing.