Can the Flames win a cup with Johnny Hockey as the man ?

[mrdonkey]

Honestly I think the problem is Monahan. Not gonna go far with a guy like that as your best centre.

[Flamenspiel]

I think Monahan is injured, but why does he always get injured? Maybe because he does not fight back or retaliate, he can be fouled with impunity.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Monahan has been absolute ass for months now. Gaudreau looked 1000x better with Ryan as his center during that one game, because Ryan actually possesses the puck once in awhile. If Ryan is an upgrade, Monahan is nowhere near the standard needed for a first line.

This is sad and sobering, but it's true. Ryan fulfills the roles of a centre much better than Monahan.

I think the Flames can win with Gaudreau, maybe even with him as their best forward, but he needs support in specific ways that bolster his weaknesses, like recovering the puck deep in his own zone, leading breakouts and transitions when gaudreau's being triple teamed, and recovering pucks in the offensive zone and maintaining possession with strong body positioning, hard work, and good passes.

Having a #1C whose only notable skill is getting open in the slot (and he hasn't even been doing this well in the playoffs) is not that kind of support

[transplant99]

Gaudreau is supposedly one of the elite guys in the NHL...elite guys make those around them better.

yet, in Calgary, we expect other guys to make him better? (IE: its all Monahan and Lindholms fault). That is a load of dung and a complete cop out.

Johnny is an elite talent without question, but he is not an elite hockey player. His theatrics every goddamn time a stick gets close to him is an example of that. I know im not alone in saying I have seen way too much of it and it has to stop. Its the playoffs. Playoff time means it gets harder to play...as it should. Literally hundreds of other guys are able to adjust, but not this guy? Always excuses for him and it has to stop.

Monahan certainly has his own issues whether they be injury related or not, but that has NOTHING to do with the performance of Gaudreau. The guy needs to figure it out or get out. He has a real opportunity to be the guy everyone wants him to be and to be the guy he is being paid to be. Let's see if he is able to take the next step and actually play the way he can.

Im not holding my breath.

[SuperMatt18]

Gaudreau and Monahan would be fine pieces on a cup winner, issue is I don't think they can be your best two forwards.

Even deeper than that I'm not sure you can win a cup in the NHL with Monahan + Backlund as your top two centers.

These are the last 10 Cup Champions and their top 2 centers:

2018: Washington - Backstrom, Kuznetzov
2017: Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin
2016: Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin
2015: Chicago - Toews, Richards
2014: LA Kings - Kopitar, Carter
2013: Chicago - Toews, Sharp/Handzus (depending who played center)
2012: LA Kings - Kopitar, Carter
2011: Boston - Bergeron, Krecji
2010: Chicago - Toews, Bolland/Sharp
2009: Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin

Personally I think that either Monahan or Backlund would be fine as one of the two centers on a playoff winning team here but really they need to improve on one of those two guys to really be a cup contender.

It's where Bennett now living up to draft potential hurts because he was supposed to be that guy.

[Erick Estrada]

A lot of very good players have had poor first rounds including Crosby, Stamkos, Kucherov, Karlsson, etc. It's best we not over-analyze based on a small sample where the whole team has been outplayed. Yes there are question marks on this roster but I don't think Gaudreau is part of any offseason changes. I expect Brodie and Frolik won't be part of the team next season and the team will re-evaluate if Monahan and Backlund are good enough to win a cup as your top two centers. I wouldn't be stunned if one of them is moved and a guy like Duchene is signed as a replacement or if both are back. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to Treliving's penchant for making big moves he feels is necessary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by fleury

I think most hit the nail on the head so far. Johnny isn't the problem - other guys are. Monahan is slower than the competition, and Neal is a step behind as well. This series reminds me a lot like the Anaheim one where in Anaheim the Flames looked a bit short and slow. In this case, they're just slower than the competition. Defence wise, I think they've been just okay - Brodie's been bad, and Andersson seems a little slow to react at times. They can still turn it around, but with some natural progression of younger guys maturing next season, the team should be alright if they can go all in with a faster roster somehow. I'm thinking Monahan, Neal, and Brodie gone. Who'd have thought he goaltending would be this amazing just two weeks ago?

Monahan isn't performing, but Johnny isn't either and it's not just because he doesn't have help. He's doing things that exacerbate the situation.

Neal isn't playing well, but he's not even the problem on his line IMO. His play has been acceptable to me given his season. Jankowski is just not there.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Monahan isn't performing, but Johnny isn't either and it's not just because he doesn't have help. He's doing things that exacerbate the situation.

Neal isn't playing well, but he's not even the problem on his line IMO. His play has been acceptable to me given his season. Jankowski is just not there.

Goodness no. Neal is a huge problem because he can't do anything half decent anymore.

Both Neal and Jankowski are massive problems. Bennett's been perhaps the 2nd best Flames player in the playoffs after Smith, and has been stepping it up and playing well, yet there isn't much he can do because Janko and Neal are hot steaming garbage.

So much for the 'Don't worry, Neal will turn it up for the playoffs' hope.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I've been hesitant to post in this thread, as it feels like a discussion that should happen after the season, and I'm not prepared to shovel dirt on them yet. I don't think this ends in Game 5. I really don't.

But then again the question has validity. i would apply it to both Sean and Johnny. And I will admit that it is a growing concern of mine that they aren't guys you will win with. I think they both WANT to win. I think they both HATE to lose. But I'm not sure they are committed to what it takes.

My half baked and probably not realistic idea is to put together a package centering around Johnny and do everything you can to get Barkov out of Florida. That is another team that needs a chemistry change. He is their most important player but Johnny is considered elite too.

For shiggles
Johnny+Sean for Huberdeau+Barkov
Any takers?

EDIT: I will add that part of my motivation for trading Johnny is that I still don't think he re-signs here and I think you need to extract the value out of the assets before that starts to be more clear. (I have no way of knowing any of this - it is an a completely uninformed view)

[EldrickOnIce]

Neal has been fine.
Entirely unspectacular, but OK.

[FanIn80]

I think it's just time to come to terms with the fact that we have the best "first-half of the regular season" top line in the league... and the worst "down the stretch + playoffs" top line in the league.

Monny is one of my favourite players, but I've been waiting for six years for him to finally get the shot of gamma rays he needs to be able to Hulk-out when he's on the ice. He has the size and the toughness, he's just lacking that ability to "snap" and get any kind of a beast-mode going out there.

Johnny and Lindy will be just fine with their roles, once Monny learns how play angry. If that doesn't happen, then unfortunately one of my favourite players in the game is just another fringe asset who can score 20 goals in the first 40 games, and 10 goals in the last 40 + playoffs while not really bringing much else to the table.

Toughness: Check.
Size: Check.
Anger: MIA.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Neal has been fine.
Entirely unspectacular, but OK.

No he hasn't been OK. He's been horrible. He can't do anything half decent anymore. He's lost it. The game has passed him by and he's finished as an NHL level player.

[Joborule]

Guess this is applicable here:

Originally Posted by Joborule

I'm worried that Flames may be stuck with having Monhan as their best centre for years, and this is going to be Iginla all over again for Johnny; not having a true #1C/ impact player to compliment him; thus making it easy to shut down and frustrating Johnny, and stunting the Flames from being any legitimate threat for another several years.

The Flames are better off keeping Johnny. He is the type of player you would want on a team pursuing the cup. The problem is that we don't have the complementary player to him that's a lethal weapon on their own.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Neal has been fine.
Entirely unspectacular, but OK.

He could have prevented two of the three goals against with a little effort. Avs 1st goal that turned the game he is flying the zone with a 2 goal lead in the 3rd

[FanIn80]

Off the hook weirdness, but (perhaps?) intriguing:

- Gaudreau Bennett Lindholm?
- Gaudreau Tkachuk Lindholm?
- Gaudreau Bennett Tkachuk?
- Gaudreau Tkachuk Bennett?
- Tkachuk Monahan Lindholm?
- Tkachuk Monahan Bennett?
- Tkachuk Bennett Lindholm?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He could have prevented two of the three goals against with a little effort. Avs 1st goal that turned the game he is flying the zone with a 2 goal lead in the 3rd

I posted this in the PGT but will drop it here as well:

This is going to be a fascinating off season when it comes to James Neal.

He was brought in for 5 years to provide
- veteran leadership
- playoff experience
- grit
- consistent goal scoring

The leadership part is maybe the only one we can't say assuredly that he didn't deliver on as we aren't around the team. Playoff experience is an intangible but he doesn't seem to be lending anything that resembles it.

What do they do? Obvious answer is bring him back next season and see if he regains any semblance of his former self. They gave Brouwer 2 years after all.

But does James Neal even want to come back? He never seemed happy here. He thought he'd be getting top line minutes. Even if he did his play all but guaranteed he wouldn't stay there. I'm not sure Peters is a fan of his at all.

You can't buy him out. Even with his lack of trade protection who is going to take that on? Can't imagine what Treliving is thinking right now.

[Resolute 14]

When Monahan is playing well, that pairing is dynamite. But Monahan has been crap for a while now - and I fully expect we'll hear his wrist is screwed again come garbage bag day. And so, frankly has been Lindholm.

Peters needs to stop sticking with what's not working. Even if it means going with something absurd like Gaudreau-Ryan-Tkachuk or Gaudreau-Backlund-Tkachuk, make a bloody change on the top line.

[Rando]

Think you move both in separate deals. Gaudreau to the Rangers for Mika Zibanejad, Filip Chytil 1st + 2nd?

No idea what to do with Monahan. Gaudreau will be seen as an elite talent with warts, Monahan's value could be all over the map. Perhaps you move him with Brodie for a signed Taylor Hall (more coming back)?

No idea.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Neal has been fine.
Entirely unspectacular, but OK.

The guy is having serious issues with his legs. Not only does it look like he’s skating in tar, he’s avoiding scrums, because he won’t actually come to a complete stop. I actually believe he’s trying to resist complete exhaustion like we do in beer leagues.

Last night he took a big sweeping float by Smith and the Flames D man, split between them through a 1’ wide opening, because he couldn’t stop or turn suddenly. I wish I noted the time it happened because it was a pathetic display. It’s a serious problem.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The guy needs to figure it out or get out. He has a real opportunity to be the guy everyone wants him to be and to be the guy he is being paid to be. Let's see if he is able to take the next step and actually play the way he can.

What do you mean by "figure it out?" He's small and he's light. He's never going to be a Fleury or a St. Louis. He's not even going to be a Kane. The only way he can avoid getting rubbed out by opposing players is to evade them. Anad as we're seeing, he has less space and time in the playoffs because all players have less space and time.

Maybe if he dedicates himself to working out seriously, he can get a little stronger on the puck. But not much. He'll never be a guy who can skate through the whole opposing team in a tight playoff game. So he needs the help of teammates to be effective, someone who can share the load of carrying the puck. Teammates who are more dynamic than Sean Monahan.

I'm not sure what else there is he needs to figure out.