Security options for acreage

[flamesfever]

Many great ideas.

We had a person break into our cabin in order to steal our booze. We managed to catch him because he left a screwdriver at the scene with his name on it.

I think being close with neighbors is also important. If you can arrange it, having someone check your property on a regular basis is quite helpful.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

They will protect your livestock from predators.

Donkeys are mental.

Exactly. Same with miniature donkeys. Those things are bonkers.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Warning shots are a bad idea, not legal in most jurisdictions, which could lead to criminal charges. You are responsible for every round that leaves the barrel, and if there is a person down range when you discharge your weapon, you could be charged for your actions. Since you knowingly discharged your weapon, with intent, that could be construed as reckless endangerment up to attempted murder, depending how close you come to the individual.

IIRC, there were changes made to self-defence laws in Canada. Warning shots are legal if deemed a reasonable response, and protecting yourself and your property from intruders generally qualifies as reasonable.

Originally Posted by New Era

Never fire a warning shot. This is not a John Wayne movie. You're better off to drop the person where they are, and try explaining to the authorities how you were protecting yourself.

That's just ridiculous.

And comparing a warning shot to a John Wayne movie... Is that how you picture it? Where are you from?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Many great ideas.

We had a person break into our cabin in order to steal our booze. We managed to catch him because he left a screwdriver at the scene with his name on it.

I think being close with neighbors is also important. If you can arrange it, having someone check your property on a regular basis is quite helpful.

Damn you Robertson!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

How about dogs? Or bees? Or dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Damn you Robertson!

Damn. I got screwed once by the old Phillips and Robertson gang.

[troutman]

Have you considered badgers?

Badgers > Pitbulls

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

IIRC, there were changes made to self-defence laws in Canada. Warning shots are legal if deemed a reasonable response, and protecting yourself and your property from intruders generally qualifies as reasonable.

Well, my suggestion would be to be sure and not just tell someone "IIRC you can take a warning shot to protect yourself and it's all good." According to Calgary's Oykhman Law Offices, it is a minimum jail term of four years for recklessly discharging a firearm. Pointing a firearm at someone can result in a sentence of up to five years. From that, warning shots seem to be a big no-no.

Even in the most gun free States, like here in Arizona, a "warning shot" will get you in a bind and facing a class 6 felony. Pointing a weapon at someone can be aggravated assault. Know your law before advising someone to use a firearm in such a reckless manner.

That's just ridiculous.

And comparing a warning shot to a John Wayne movie... Is that how you picture it? Where are you from?

How are you picturing it? How do you safely discharge a weapon in a "warning shot" that is safe and legal?

Down here, ironically where John Wayne shot a lot of his movies, the only time you can pull a weapon is when there is substantial risk to the property (someone is kicking your door down), a forcible felony occurring (in the act), or potential of seriously bodily injury or death happening to yourself. If you pull your weapon in defense of someone else, you have to know that the individual was in harm's way and only your action could have prevented it. Otherwise, its a felony. And that is in a state where almost everything is legal with firearms (open carry), and from a permitted owner. Pulling your weapon and warning shots were covered extensively during my permit training, and it was made abundantly clear that pulling a weapon was done so as a last resort, and if you're going to pull it be prepared to put that round into the individual you are point it at, as you just committed a possible felony. The ramifications of pulling a weapon and discharging a round are extremely serious, both for the individuals down range, and the individual handling the gun.

For example, if you observe someone on your property (on your driveway was the example), and you pull your gun without threat of immediate danger, that is aggravated assault. If that person is breaking into your car, and you unleash a round, missing the thief, but hitting a bystander down range (either direct or by ricochet) you are responsible for what you hit. That exposes you to a felony (discharge of a weapon up to manslaughter, depending on outcome of the injury). That also leaves you open to civil litigation. There is a great responsibility in handling a weapon, which is why most people should never be allowed to pick one up.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Depends a bit on your layout. If your driveway is the only access then you can do something with a gate. But you do have to leave easy access for emergencies (no special knowledge or tools to open it).

Isn't that code requirement just for exit doors in a home? I know people with heavy duty driveway gates and they are electronically locked with no overrides.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Isn't that code requirement just for exit doors in a home? I know people with heavy duty driveway gates and they are electronically locked with no overrides.

Yes lots of people go that route with driveway gates and it's not at all illegal. It's more an insurance issue. My insurance wont cover me if the fire trucks can't get there. Even if the house is a smoking hole by the time they arrive, they still have to be able to get there. So it's a trade off.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by troutman

Have you considered badgers?

Badgers > Pitbulls

Honey badgers are the best. Because they truly don't care.

[speede5]

I've been lucky and never had an issue on my acreage, I feel like the best you can do is have a good camera system to hopefully identify offenders. You can get a pretty basic system that alerts your phone and then you can monitor your cameras to decide if its a false alarm or worth a call to 911.

No guns at my place. I would hate to be in a defensive position cause that can go wrong so many ways, but I'm not too worried as I haven't heard of many unwanted visitors while someone is home around our area. I always keep a car or truck by the house so that it looks like someone is home from the road.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, my suggestion would be to be sure and not just tell someone "IIRC you can take a warning shot to protect yourself and it's all good." According to Calgary's Oykhman Law Offices, it is a minimum jail term of four years for recklessly discharging a firearm. Pointing a firearm at someone can result in a sentence of up to five years. From that, warning shots seem to be a big no-no.

Even in the most gun free States, like here in Arizona, a "warning shot" will get you in a bind and facing a class 6 felony. Pointing a weapon at someone can be aggravated assault. Know your law before advising someone to use a firearm in such a reckless manner.

You're right about knowing the law before advising people. So maybe an American shouldn't be handing out advice on Canadian laws. Especially when discussing a province that just last year had this issue in front of a judge and the Crown dropped the charges.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

You're right about knowing the law before advising people. So maybe an American shouldn't be handing out advice on Canadian laws. Especially when discussing a province that just last year had this issue in front of a judge and the Crown dropped the charges.

Thanks, that's why I went to Calgary law firm's site who specializes in these things. You also might want to clue in that there were charges laid, meaning the law is on the books. I can't say what happening in this particular instance, but the Crown likely did not have compelling evidence to make the charge stand. Still means the law is on the books, otherwise it never would have made the way into a court room.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, my suggestion would be to be sure and not just tell someone "IIRC you can take a warning shot to protect yourself and it's all good." According to Calgary's Oykhman Law Offices, it is a minimum jail term of four years for recklessly discharging a firearm. Pointing a firearm at someone can result in a sentence of up to five years. From that, warning shots seem to be a big no-no.

Even in the most gun free States, like here in Arizona, a "warning shot" will get you in a bind and facing a class 6 felony. Pointing a weapon at someone can be aggravated assault. Know your law before advising someone to use a firearm in such a reckless manner.



How are you picturing it? How do you safely discharge a weapon in a "warning shot" that is safe and legal?

Down here, ironically where John Wayne shot a lot of his movies, the only time you can pull a weapon is when there is substantial risk to the property (someone is kicking your door down), a forcible felony occurring (in the act), or potential of seriously bodily injury or death happening to yourself. If you pull your weapon in defense of someone else, you have to know that the individual was in harm's way and only your action could have prevented it. Otherwise, its a felony. And that is in a state where almost everything is legal with firearms (open carry), and from a permitted owner. Pulling your weapon and warning shots were covered extensively during my permit training, and it was made abundantly clear that pulling a weapon was done so as a last resort, and if you're going to pull it be prepared to put that round into the individual you are point it at, as you just committed a possible felony. The ramifications of pulling a weapon and discharging a round are extremely serious, both for the individuals down range, and the individual handling the gun.

For example, if you observe someone on your property (on your driveway was the example), and you pull your gun without threat of immediate danger, that is aggravated assault. If that person is breaking into your car, and you unleash a round, missing the thief, but hitting a bystander down range (either direct or by ricochet) you are responsible for what you hit. That exposes you to a felony (discharge of a weapon up to manslaughter, depending on outcome of the injury). That also leaves you open to civil litigation. There is a great responsibility in handling a weapon, which is why most people should never be allowed to pick one up.

I believe the RCMP require something like 275 hours of training before an officer is able to use his or her firearm. It may be more dangerous for the average individual to start using a firearm against another individual.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I believe the RCMP require something like 275 hours of training before an officer is able to use his or her firearm. It may be more dangerous for the average individual to start using a firearm against another individual.

Did not know that. That's very cool to know, and more than our officers spent on their certification. Good on the RCMP.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by troutman

Have you considered badgers?

Badgers > Pitbulls

Wolverines > Badgers > Pitbulls although they are smelly, hard to train, generally vicious to anything and everything...

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, my suggestion would be to be sure and not just tell someone "IIRC you can take a warning shot to protect yourself and it's all good." According to Calgary's Oykhman Law Offices, it is a minimum jail term of four years for recklessly discharging a firearm. Pointing a firearm at someone can result in a sentence of up to five years. From that, warning shots seem to be a big no-no.

FFS Lanny...If you're aiming the warning shot at someone... that's not a warning... and so that's not at all what I said to do.

Matter of fact it was actually you that said to shoot the guy, to which I responded "that's just ridiculous".

Originally Posted by New Era

Even in the most gun free States, like here in Arizona, a "warning shot" will get you in a bind and facing a class 6 felony.

WGAF how things are in Arizona, or any other State for that matter.

Originally Posted by New Era

For example, if you observe someone on your property (on your driveway was the example), and you pull your gun without threat of immediate danger, that is aggravated assault. If that person is breaking into your car, and you unleash a round, missing the thief, but hitting a bystander down range (either direct or by ricochet) you are responsible for what you hit.

The thread is about security on AN ACREAGE. I was never advocating firing a warning shot if someone threatening pulls into your driveway, in the densely populated urban Arizona.




OP, incase Lanny has muddied what I was trying to say, I'll said it again:

If your farm dog and lights are not enough to scare off the criminal/intruder on your acreage, then fire a warning shot. I also better add in case it's not obvious (who'd have thought there was any confusion around this?), I am not saying to aim you're firearm at the criminal/intruder when you fire the shot - that's not a warning, that's murder.

I'm not speaking to the legality of this, so obviously do so at your own risk.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Long winded response trimmed to this.

Never fire a warning shot. It's irresponsible, dangerous, and illegal.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by New Era

Long winded response trimmed to this.

Never fire a warning shot. It's irresponsible, dangerous, and illegal.

You know, I'd be happy if the general populace wasn't walking around popping off rounds at all.