Sam Bennett at center - Why I Do Not Believe It Was A Failure

[PlayfulGenius]

It’s seems strange that his point production is only HALF of his pace from last season. I’ve liked his game in many ways, buts it’s just not translating into scoring results

[jaikorven]

^ Agreed the guy still just can't get the points. He has better linemates, yet they are struggling to an extent as well. He is playing with more jam. Lots of posts/crossbars, but that was the case previously.

I just don't get it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

It’s seems strange that his point production is only HALF of his pace from last season. I’ve liked his game in many ways, buts it’s just not translating into scoring results

He didn't score for the first 15 games last year, I am borderline over the moon about his start this year.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Maybe I'm interpreting the table in the OP incorrectly but it look like an extreme level of players over-performing to xGF% with Versteeg/Brouwer vs. Gaudreau/Chiasson. I think what it mostly shows is when your centre plays with Johnny you see more consistent offense which is probably accurate as Gaudreau is the best offensive player we have.

I'm inclined to disagree that these numbers show Bennett did well at centre. While it looks like Monahan and Bennett drive play at about the same rate, the scoring rates for both players is markedly different.

I'm guessing there is something missing that these counting stats don't cover just yet. As player tracking improves I think we'll really see whats different between top tier players and the rest of the league.

That being said, this is an AMAZING post. You have an opinion, you posted why you believe you are correct, and you even put in a chart! Great in-depth analysis, even if I don't agree with the interpretation of the stats.

[transplant99]

It was a failure, there is no spin to make it otherwise.

The results are right there for everyone to see.

Moving forward, maybe that changes with him looking better thus far this year, but to suggest he was anything beyond bad as a C before is nothing short of revisionist history.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Literally every game of late ... 10 in a row?

But overall I don't disagree. I don't think a turnaround now resets the clock back to 2014 and he becomes elite again.

Last year he stopped the skid, but you had to dig deep to see it. This year he has a coach that likes him and is awarding "jam" which has bought him time to find his confidence again.

With that said he's off probation, but he's not top six bound until he starts producing.

Hmm....I can't recall an instance in every one of the last ten games where he's executed a fantastic pass or finished off a play. There are about 6-7 of those I can actively recall but maybe I'm missing some. I can certainly recall him making a big hit or causing a turnover almost every game though.....which is something he has to do in order to continue to be effective.

For me I don't want to go back down the Centre road when he's finally found his niche. Especially when the Flames already have a bevy of players that are probably far better at that position than he is....Ride the wave and see what happens over the next 5-6 months.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Literally every game of late ... 10 in a row?

But overall I don't disagree. I don't think a turnaround now resets the clock back to 2014 and he becomes elite again.

Last year he stopped the skid, but you had to dig deep to see it. This year he has a coach that likes him and is awarding "jam" which has bought him time to find his confidence again.

With that said he's off probation, but he's not top six bound until he starts producing.

I think your bar is pretty low. He has to be one of the worst players at taking and making a pass on the team.

I agree he is looking better and completing more plays with his linemates but he is definitely not doing it at near a top 9 level imo.

He skating hard banging and crashing and has an active stick but he just isn't a player you put out there if you want your line to keep possession of the puck while it's on his Stick. He's at his best when he is the last player to touch the puck before a whistle rather than the first to touch it following one

Playing without janko and Hathaway has improved his game but not by leaps and bounds, he is now just an adequate bottom 6 player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think your bar is pretty low. He has to be one of the worst players at taking and making a pass on the team.

I agree he is looking better and completing more plays with his linemates but he is definitely not doing it at near a top 9 level imo.

He skating hard banging and crashing and has an active stick but he just isn't a player you put out there if you want your line to keep possession of the puck while it's on his Stick. He's at his best when he is the last player to touch the puck before a whistle rather than the first to touch it following one

Playing without janko and Hathaway has improved his game but not by leaps and bounds, he is now just an adequate bottom 6 player.

Not sure I established a bar.

I mentioned the types of passes I'm seeing, and then said I think I've seen one every game in the last ten.

He's seeing the ice better this year was my point.

But one of the worst players on the team taking and giving passes? I think you're bar is unfair.

I'd put him ahead of a lot of players in the forward group ... Neal, Frolik, Czarnik, Ryan, heck maybe even Monahan.

[ForeverFlameFan]

The points may not be showing up, but Bennett has drastically improved in everything from last season.

He’s on the third line because of depth, once someone gets injured in the top 6 Bennett is going to get that ice time because he’s earned it. And maybe then we’ll start seeing the offensive potential click.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Given Peter's proclivity to mix the lines up, I think Bennett deserves another shot at C, but mostly because Jankowski has been a disappointment thus far.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think your bar is pretty low. He has to be one of the worst players at taking and making a pass on the team.

I agree he is looking better and completing more plays with his linemates but he is definitely not doing it at near a top 9 level imo.

He skating hard banging and crashing and has an active stick but he just isn't a player you put out there if you want your line to keep possession of the puck while it's on his Stick. He's at his best when he is the last player to touch the puck before a whistle rather than the first to touch it following one

Playing without janko and Hathaway has improved his game but not by leaps and bounds, he is now just an adequate bottom 6 player.

I don't think i've been watching the same hockey games as you...

to claim bennett is not even near a top 9 level is ridiculous, if james neal could score on half the shots Bennett has fed him with a 1/4 to 1/3 open net to shoot at Bennett would have ~6-8 assists more than he currently does.

[Harry Lime]

Peters also seems to lean on guys he 'likes'. I would be much more comfortable with Bennett in that role than Ryan, and I don't have a problem with the play of Ryan. Bennett just has so much more to offer in terms of natural skill.

Someone should buy a nice scotch and send it to Peters, with a note from Bennett saying, 'Greatest coach I ever had!'.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I don't think i've been watching the same hockey games as you...

to claim bennett is not even near a top 9 level is ridiculous, if james neal could score on half the shots Bennett has fed him with a 1/4 to 1/3 open net to shoot at Bennett would have ~6-8 assists more than he currently does.

I mostly remember passes to Neal (from anyone including Bennett) being off the mark for his quick release. He's had them in his skates and too far ahead.

[ComixZone]

Awesome post GranteedEV.

I think given our lack of not only depth, but secondary 5 on 5 scoring - Bennett to centre could be a great solution. His effort and play this year are greatly improved and our new and improved coach is actually rewarding players who are earning it. So given that Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik are failing to generate 5 on 5 goals - why not shake it up and give Bennett a shot with Neal and Tkachuk?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm is our top line. After them, things become so scattered that some stability and some focused roles could help improve things.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal
Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik
Dube - Jankowski - Ryan
Hathaway

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm continues to get used as a scoring line.

Tkachuk - Bennett - Neal come in as secondary scoring.

Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik get deployed as our defensive/checking line.

Dube - Jankowski - Ryan get deployed as the energy, forechecking beast. Whoever isn't skating comes out of the line-up for Hathaway, and it cycles that way. If someone stands out and Frolik or Czarnik start to drag Backlund down, promote the best 4th line guy to Backlund's line.

It seems like a good solution to me.

[Kovaz]

I think it's a bit unfair to harp on Bennett's point totals when you look at how unlucky he's been at picking up points. If you look at just the 4 most egregious examples:

1) Early whistle against Nashville takes away a goal (we scored on the ensuing powerplay)
2) Early whistle against Toronto takes away a 2-on-1 with an empty net
3) Backlund's goal against St. Louis: Bennett crashes the net, Pietrangelo prevents Bennett from scoring by knocking it into his own net first.
4) Hamonic's goal against Washington: Bennett gets the puck to Gaudreau, Gaudreau's shot hits both Monahan and Hamonic on the way in.

It's not like it's a lack of finish on these either: Bennett's making the right play and the puck's going in, he's just not getting credit. If Bennett was sitting on 7 points in 13 games, we're not even having this conversation. And that's not even going into the lack of finish by Neal and Jankowski, or the number of posts Bennett's hit.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

I think it's a bit unfair to harp on Bennett's point totals when you look at how unlucky he's been at picking up points. If you look at just the 4 most egregious examples:

1) Early whistle against Nashville takes away a goal (we scored on the ensuing powerplay)
2) Early whistle against Toronto takes away a 2-on-1 with an empty net
3) Backlund's goal against St. Louis: Bennett crashes the net, Pietrangelo prevents Bennett from scoring by knocking it into his own net first.
4) Hamonic's goal against Washington: Bennett gets the puck to Gaudreau, Gaudreau's shot hits both Monahan and Hamonic on the way in.

It's not like it's a lack of finish on these either: Bennett's making the right play and the puck's going in, he's just not getting credit. If Bennett was sitting on 7 points in 13 games, we're not even having this conversation. And that's not even going into the lack of finish by Neal and Jankowski, or the number of posts Bennett's hit.

He also had pretty important screens on goals by Valimaki and Lindholm (his game-tie-er in Colorado).

[Enoch Root]

also 3 goalposts so far

[Toonage]

Wouldn't that be something, if after all of this he does end up being that 2C that this team needs.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

I think it's a bit unfair to harp on Bennett's point totals when you look at how unlucky he's been at picking up points. If you look at just the 4 most egregious examples:

1) Early whistle against Nashville takes away a goal (we scored on the ensuing powerplay)
2) Early whistle against Toronto takes away a 2-on-1 with an empty net
3) Backlund's goal against St. Louis: Bennett crashes the net, Pietrangelo prevents Bennett from scoring by knocking it into his own net first.
4) Hamonic's goal against Washington: Bennett gets the puck to Gaudreau, Gaudreau's shot hits both Monahan and Hamonic on the way in.

It's not like it's a lack of finish on these either: Bennett's making the right play and the puck's going in, he's just not getting credit. If Bennett was sitting on 7 points in 13 games, we're not even having this conversation. And that's not even going into the lack of finish by Neal and Jankowski, or the number of posts Bennett's hit.

Even less egregious examples ...

He makes a pass to Gaudreau against Washington, Gaudreau goes to the slot where it hits 1% of Monahan's stick on the way to Hamonic's skate and in.

Monahan gets assist. Bennett nothing.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I have also thought Bennett wasn't such a failure at center. What I always said is that Bennett needs a player that can play with some pace to his game. Dube and Czarnik are both likely candidates, though it would leave that line somewhat exposed defensively.


I have also maintained that although Bennett seemed to stagnate in his offensive development, his defensive game has grown every year. I really do think that the Flames should revisit him at center for a long stretch and see if his play improves under Peters and a much more well-rounded system.


I don't think there is anyone on this board that would argue that Bennett wasn't trending towards being a capable center under Hartley, and then he seemingly regressed under Gulutzan. Maybe... just MAYBE it had more to do with Gulutzan's coaching and systems than Bennett's ability? I think he should at least get another look and see what happens.


Many of you like Neal with Bennett, but I am not a huge fan. He really needs a guy that can put the puck in the net AND who has some wheels. There is Foo in the pipeline - hopefully he takes a step. Mangiapane too. It is a real shame that Poirier went through what he did - I think he would have been an absolute perfect fit if his development continued to go as well as his first year pro showed.


Good thread Granteed, and nice work with the argument. Really well thought-out, even if there is a point or two I may not agree with.


As for Jankowski - I still think his ceiling is that of a #2 center. He just needs time to grow, that's all. I bet that Jankowski finishes off with 15 goals and 15+ assists this year.


Monahan
Backlund
Bennett
Jankowski


If the Flames aren't going to try Bennett at center, then please use Lindholm as a center with Bennett as the winger. That would make for an effective duo IMO, with a guy like Czarnik on the wing (better finishing ability than Dube). Would be a strong line on face-offs, and should do well defensively also.