[News] Dube and Valimaki make opening day roster - Page 10 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Azure · 10-31-2018, 02:06 PM

It is amazing to me how much people focus on offensive stats when it comes to judging how well a rookie is doing.

There is a lot MORE to the game than just scoring. Dube wasn't drafted to be a one dimensional player so why not let him learn all the other aspects of the game as well.

He is getting opportunities in many situations. In fact one could argue he gets more defensive opportunities than offensive. I'm sure is zone starts are skewed that way as well.

It took Backlund a few years to develop into a top shutdown guy.

Enoch Root · 10-31-2018, 02:46 PM

I don't think any of them have anything to be learned from the AHL. All three are NHL-level players at this point, and as someone said above, practicing with the team everyday is not something that should be overlooked.

Lots of talk about Dube not looking ready yet but I disagree - I think he has been solid. And he is getting his chances offensively. Frankly, he could easily have 3 or 4 goals already. It will come. And he will be fine.

I do agree with the comment about 82 games though. And I think that it can be - and would be - helpful for any and all of them to spend the occasional game upstairs. It allows them to catch their breath and let things settle down.

Absolutely thrilled with all of them. Now give Rittich more starts!

GioforPM · 10-31-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

It is amazing to me how much people focus on offensive stats when it comes to judging how well a rookie is doing.

There is a lot MORE to the game than just scoring. Dube wasn't drafted to be a one dimensional player so why not let him learn all the other aspects of the game as well.

He is getting opportunities in many situations. In fact one could argue he gets more defensive opportunities than offensive. I'm sure is zone starts are skewed that way as well.

It took Backlund a few years to develop into a top shutdown guy.

I never really pictured Dube as a big offensive contributor. Based, I guess, just on his WJC play, where he was assigned a role and did it extremely well. I figured his upside was as a Frolik style utility man.

Others have told me his offensive ceiling is higher, but for me that's just extra thick gravy if it happens. At the moment, as a late second rounder, I'm completely satisfied. More games (without a real bad one) than 16 first rounders from 2016 and all but 2 second rounders.

SeanCharles · 10-31-2018, 03:00 PM

Valimaki and Andersson are here to stay - sorry to say Stone..

I wonder if Stone gets fed up with sitting and requests a trade?

One thing I didn't really consider that a buddy mentioned to me is Calgary's defense takes way less hits in the corners because of Mike Smiths puck handling abilities and it could be why our dmen didn't really suffer too much in way of injuries last year..

I only mention it because if Stone can only get back in if an injury pops up maybe he will be sitting awhile, making him frustrated and want out.

It's interesting the team seems worried about losing Prout on waivers..

In regards to Dube, the one argument about keeping him is none of our depth forwards are scoring yet so just because he isn't either doesn't mean he should go down.

You gotta remember no forward on the team outside of our top 5 guys has more than 3pts (aside from Frolik who has 2 empty netters).

Our depth hasn't really come through yet.

flambers · 10-31-2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

In regards to Dube, the one argument about keeping him is none of our depth forwards are scoring yet so just because he isn't either doesn't mean he should go down..

Remember yesterday's game when the coach shorten the bench, Dube was not one of the forwards who had limited time.

Players who saw limited time was Frolik and Hathaway.

As for the goals, its only a matter of time he is due.

From a scoring woes perspective, player to watch is Backlund.

Monahan For Mayor · 10-31-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Not that I disagree with you, because really who am I to say... The whole 1st line minutes in the AHL vs 4th line minutes in the NHL has been debated enough,

but the one thing I hope management takes into consideration (which I'm sure they do) is the fitness level of the players.

Neither Valimaki, Andersson, nor Dube have ever played an 82+ game season before. Being worn down and which could eventually lead to an injury won't do well for anyone's career.

I mean this is no more of a concern then the many player who step riight into the league after in their draft year.

SeanCharles · 10-31-2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Remember yesterday's game when the coach shorten the bench, Dube was not one of the forwards who had limited time.

Players who saw limited time was Frolik and Hathaway.

As for the goals, its only a matter of time he is due.

From a scoring woes perspective, player to watch is Backlund.

Janko got benched too, he made that one odd play that led to the Eichel goal..

I've been disappointed in him and Ryan as 3rd line centres so far this season.

So far it looks like all of Ryan, Janko, Hathaway, Frolik and Czarnik are best fit on the 4th line/PB.

Drunk Uncle · 10-31-2018, 03:48 PM

I like to look at this by considering how much the team would miss the player in the line-up.

Valimaki I think would be greatly missed and you would notice the hole he would leave if he was out of the line-up.

Dube on the other hand would be missed less in my opinion. I think he is currently on the same level as Ryan/Czarnik. Obviously Dube's ceiling is much higher than those 2, but I would think if Dube doesn't improve noticeably in the next few games you see him in the AHL for a bit.

I would bet if he goes to the AHL you see Peluso up and Czarnik take his place in the lineup.

Niemo · 10-31-2018, 04:41 PM

I dont think there is a point in rushing guys when we have options. I fear that we will run onto the Bennett situation if we dont take advantage of our depth. Stone and Czarnik are perfectly capable players. Dube and Valimaki can use a short stint to gain some more confidence and more playing time. They havent played much AHL and aren't great enough to completely skip that step when we have adequate options. Czarnik needs minutes in the big leagues to develop as well.

SeanCharles · 10-31-2018, 05:25 PM

^ Valimaki is here to stay and he very well should be.

Him and Andersson have impressed me immensely so far this season.

Dube is not the reason Czarnik hasn't been getting into the lineup, Czarnik only has himself to blame.

I think Czarnik will find his way back into the lineup soon enough.

Azure · 10-31-2018, 06:51 PM

Dube on the 3rd / 4th line and doing remotely well is not even close to as impressive as Valimaki playing decent icetime, and doing a lot of PK and hard minutes in important situations.

At his age, playing that position, really impressive.

CalgaryFan1988 · 11-01-2018, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

I mean this is no more of a concern then the many player who step riight into the league after in their draft year.

Exactly, that's why usually players need more time to bulk up prior to entering the NHL, minus the few exceptions that know how to stay out of harms way and avoid hits.

Whether players are fit/tough enough to make the leap to the NHL is an annual debate, it's not just about talent. I think we can all agree the 3 are talented enough.

When it comes to toughness though, i'm more concerned with Dube. He's pretty slight.

GioforPM · 11-01-2018, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Dube on the 3rd / 4th line and doing remotely well is not even close to as impressive as Valimaki playing decent icetime, and doing a lot of PK and hard minutes in important situations.

At his age, playing that position, really impressive.

Sure, I'm not comparing the two. Valimaki is more impressive (and should be given their draft positions). I just think that not much is gained and a lot can be lost for both if you send them down. I think the AHL can develop bad habits because they are not as structured, and they play with and against some pretty bad players and goalies. I don't think scoring touch gained or regained in the AHL necessarily translates when they return (and there's lots of examples of high scoring guys in the AHL who just never translate it). I also think practice and even press box duty here is as valuable as bigger minutes down there.