What is the deal with Elliotte Friedman?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's entirely possible that Darryl is fed up as well and decides he's going to retire. I don't think it's about money for him and he could simply decide he's had enough. Really though if it's more than just Huberdeau and Kadri that don't want to play for him I don't see a solution that works with him remaining behind the bench.

There is no way Sutter walks away from what's likely $6 million pre-tax dollars. He's either fired and gets his money or he's somewhere in the Flames organization next season.

[Toonage]

I wouldn't say there is no way. He had offers after the Kings let him go and said no thanks. Instead taking on a consulting role with the Ducks for what I'm sure wasn't head coach money. He got to sit at home and watch hockey.

Kind of like Bob Murray and the Flames right now.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's entirely possible that Darryl is fed up as well and decides he's going to retire. I don't think it's about money for him and he could simply decide he's had enough. Really though if it's more than just Huberdeau and Kadri that don't want to play for him I don't see a solution that works with him remaining behind the bench.

I do think we see Sutter resign this summer as it feels like he and the organization are heading toward a quick divorce. I think there will be a contract buyout of some kind but I doubt he wants to be back.

To me he was hired a couple of years too late. I think bringing him in after Gulutzan would have been the right call. He would have had 4 years to work with Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Bennett.

He came in a couple of years too late and didn’t get enough time with the core that was drafted and built here. He simply doesn’t fit with the current team and it really seems like he is fed up with them and they are fed up with him. Due to the moves made last summer this organization is tied to Huberdeau and Kadri. This organization also needs to bring in young players next year and rebuild their prospect pool. Veterans should be dealt this summer for youth and cap space.

It is just not a fit. This team went from 2004 to 2010 in one summer and by that I mean loving Sutter to the dark cloud that was here when he left

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I do think we see Sutter resign this summer as it feels like he and the organization are heading toward a quick divorce. I think there will be a contract buyout of some kind but I doubt he wants to be back.

To me he was hired a couple of years too late. I think bringing him in after Gulutzan would have been the right call. He would have had 4 years to work with Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk and Bennett.

He came in a couple of years too late and didn’t get enough time with the core that was drafted and built here. He simply doesn’t fit with the current team and it really seems like he is fed up with them and they are fed up with him. Due to the moves made last summer this organization is tied to Huberdeau and Kadri. This organization also needs to bring in young players next year and rebuild their prospect pool. Veterans should be dealt this summer for youth and cap space.

It is just not a fit. This team went from 2004 to 2010 in one summer and by that I mean loving Sutter to the dark cloud that was here when he left

If there's one thing that this "era" (the Treliving years) has taught me is that timing with teams is everything.

Wrong goalie or wrong coach at the wrong time derails so much. Speaks to the difficulty of putting a championship team together - and puts even more emphasis on the absolute requirement for that elite, foundational talent. If that foundation is in place, you then get multiple cracks to figure out the timing and hope things align. If you don't have that that elite, foundational talent? You're at the whims of circumstance much more.
l

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If there's one thing that this "era" (the Treliving years) has taught me is that timing with teams is everything.

Wrong goalie or wrong coach at the wrong time derails so much. Speaks to the difficulty of putting a championship team together - and puts even more emphasis on the absolute requirement for that elite, foundational talent. If that foundation is in place, you then get multiple cracks to figure out the timing and hope things align. If you don't have that that elite, foundational talent? You're at the whims of circumstance much more.
l

I think that's why you see teams ebb and flow, good years and bad years, then suddenly it all comes together and you have a cup run.

For some teams, the stars never align, and the core that's been built runs out of time.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I find it funny how when this thread was made, dominos began to fall and both Steinberg and Boomer both said they’ve heard the same and even worse stuff than Friedman has

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think that's why you see teams ebb and flow, good years and bad years, then suddenly it all comes together and you have a cup run.

For some teams, the stars never align, and the core that's been built runs out of time.

I think a lot may be into something here. The classic forming, storming, norming, performing stages are what any group goes through. For awhile now things have been off. I think more recently it’s not having a core to grow up with. This year everything was thrown together and guys were asked to perform. May not be all the problems but could be part of it. Anyway, I think it should be burned down completely. I don’t know who in management goes but player wise all have to be put out there for taking. They’re already too old as a core, and they’re not performing. Bad place to be.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

It seemed like last year was alright

Why did Sutter have to go off the deep end this season right from the get go with the weird media commentary

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

It seemed like last year was alright

Why did Sutter have to go off the deep end this season right from the get go with the weird media commentary

Last summer he took jabs at the media all the time and constantly downplayed the narrative that was an elite top team. Big difference is they won last year. Fans ate up how Sutter rolled with the media here but when things are bad it is magnified so much and the fans have turned on him and hate the way he deals with the media this year.

He has always squashed their narratives but if the team is winning the fans don’t care.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If he came after Glenn, that was the 3rd year of Tkachucks ELC no way he sticks around after that and asks for a trade.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

If he came after Glenn, that was the 3rd year of Tkachucks ELC no way he sticks around after that and asks for a trade.

I seriously doubt that but if he did I am sure they get an even better return than they did this year.

I do wonder if they make the Sutter move then if the Hurricanes deal dies and they go after older players than Lindholm/Hanifin.

I will always wonder what the Blues deal was that was apparently super close to coming together? I doubt it would have topped the Canes deal but interested to know as that deal appeared to be closer the day before the Canes deal went through

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I seriously doubt that but if he did I am sure they get an even better return than they did this year.

I do wonder if they make the Sutter move then if the Hurricanes deal dies and they go after older players than Lindholm/Hanifin.

I will always wonder what the Blues deal was that was apparently super close to coming together? I doubt it would have topped the Canes deal but interested to know as that deal appeared to be closer the day before the Canes deal went through

Peters was hired in April or first week of May a week after Glenn was fired. Sutter wasn't in the cards from the sound so fit and we had one candidate.

The Canes deal happened at the draft.

Sutter would not have been a softer or more offensive coach in 2018, no different than this season. Tkachuk had 77 points if under Sutters first season he puts up another 50 point season you think he gets us a better return? I don't think so.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Peters was hired in April or first week of May a week after Glenn was fired. Sutter wasn't in the cards from the sound so fit and we had one candidate.

The Canes deal happened at the draft.

Sutter would not have been a softer or more offensive coach in 2018, no different than this season. Tkachuk had 77 points if under Sutters first season he puts up another 50 point season you think he gets us a better return? I don't think so.

I criticized Treliving at a STH event for his lack of search when it came to hiring Peters. I brought up the names Sutter and Vignault as guys he likely could have interviewed instead.

So Sutter would have been hired instead and that is why I question if the Canes deal would happen or not.

Chucky never once scored at a 50pt pace over a season with Sutter so not sure why he would have in 2019?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The reason Tkachuk isn't here any more is because he was bridged to a short term deal. If you believe Tkachuk, there was a point that he was willing to sign a long term deal but the deal couldn't get done, therefore he took a bridge. As a player, I am sure the lack of faith management showed probably affected his long term desire to stay. He apparently also wanted to be captain, which isn't something a player wants if they are counting the days until they leave. Then there was the time some team mates asked him to tone down his play.

To me, Tkachuk's disillusion with the Flames looks more like a player feeling like he wasn't getting the respect he deserved from the franchise overall. Sutter may have played into it, but I think the decision was likely 90% made before Sutter was even in the picture.

"long term deal" that summer meant 5 or 6 years. So we'd have 1-2 years left now, on a much higher AAV, so various other dominoes would have fallen.

We also don't know if he would have been given the keys to the car and done the remarkable things he has this season in FLA.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I criticized Treliving at a STH event for his lack of search when it came to hiring Peters. I brought up the names Sutter and Vignault as guys he likely could have interviewed instead.

So Sutter would have been hired instead and that is why I question if the Canes deal would happen or not.

Chucky never once scored at a 50pt pace over a season with Sutter so not sure why he would have in 2019?

There is some rumors that we have targeted some high profile coaches but they either don't want to come here or the our offers are not strong enough. Are the Flames not notorious for cheap coaching hires?

He was coming off 50 point seasons and he was also younger playing on the 2nd line. You assume it was the same player we got last year. And we know that he doesn't like Sutter would that relationship be any different in 2018 as it was in 2021? Doubt it.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

There is some rumors that we have targeted some high profile coaches but they either don't want to come here or the our offers are not strong enough. Are the Flames not notorious for cheap coaching hires?

Do you recall what names were mentioned? I suspect that the reputation of this franchise and ownership etc isn't all that appealing to many high profile folks who can pick their spots.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

That ship has sailed, they acquired Horvat.

Hmmm.....trading 32 year old Kadri at $7x7 for 27 year old Horvat at $8.5x8 would be interesting.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

There is some rumors that we have targeted some high profile coaches but they either don't want to come here or the our offers are not strong enough. Are the Flames not notorious for cheap coaching hires?

He was coming off 50 point seasons and he was also younger playing on the 2nd line. You assume it was the same player we got last year. And we know that he doesn't like Sutter would that relationship be any different in 2018 as it was in 2021? Doubt it.

I think there is a better chance Sutter puts the top line together sooner than running with Lindholm on the wing so Chucky possibly blows up sooner under Darryl.

I do agree that it seems like the organization is not fond of paying for good coaches and would prefer to pay multiple crappy ones at the same time because none are able to finish a contract with the exception of Hartley and Sutter who are likely never coaching in the league again after their time with the Flames

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I criticized Treliving at a STH event for his lack of search when it came to hiring Peters. I brought up the names Sutter and Vignault as guys he likely could have interviewed instead.

So Sutter would have been hired instead and that is why I question if the Canes deal would happen or not.

Chucky never once scored at a 50pt pace over a season with Sutter so not sure why he would have in 2019?

Ya, in Sutter’s first year Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace. Not 50 point pace. But before Sutter he was only at 66 point pace.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

"long term deal" that summer meant 5 or 6 years. So we'd have 1-2 years left now, on a much higher AAV, so various other dominoes would have fallen.

We also don't know if he would have been given the keys to the car and done the remarkable things he has this season in FLA.

He might have signed a 7 year deal like his brother. Tkachuk at 9.5 million right now on a 7 year deal would have been fine. We did not have the cap space at the time to sign him for that much though.

Going forward I hope they avoid UFA’s like the plague and try to sign their young guys for as much term as possible.