Protests in France

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Posts like this really demonstrate how good capitalist propaganda/Protestant work ethic BS is.

This isn't the slam dunk post you think it is when you stop for a second to realize that this whole issue is about maintaining solvency in a major socialist program. I wish things were different, but with rapidly aging populations and not enough young people being born to enter the work force and pay for the program, it's a crisis of demographics. What a ridiculous capitalist pig I am though, right?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

This isn't the slam dunk post you think it is when you stop for a second to realize that this whole issue is about maintaining solvency in a major socialist program. I wish things were different, but with rapidly aging populations and not enough young people being born to enter the work force and pay for the program, it's a crisis of demographics. What a ridiculous capitalist pig I am though, right?

Maybe the companies who make billions off the backs of the workers should fill the gap then.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Corporate tax rate on profits in France is already at 27.5%, which is already second highest in Europe. That isn't pocket change.

The truth is it's a country with a ton of social spending, and they need more than what corporate taxation can provide.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Corporate tax rate on profits in France is already at 27.5%, which is already second highest in Europe. That isn't pocket change.

The truth is it's a country with a ton of social spending, and they need more than what corporate taxation can provide.

The problem is that in a "democracy" rolling back social spending once it is place is very difficult to do, regardless of the Country.

[speede5]

I can't believe how many of you are ok with this.

CPP is mandatory, they take your money to fund it and you can only collect when they decide, you make plans for your retirement from a young age and they change the rules whenever they manage the money poorly.

The fund is full of monies paid by people who die before even reaching the age, and I'm willing to bet a high percentage of people die off before they even recoop their contributions.

We aren't all making CP money, this pension is something a lot of us need, and since we've paid into it, we also deserve the benefits as they were described when we started contributing. The only reason it's "underfunded" is cause the governement keeps dipping in to fund their ineptitude.

Also, it may be easy to think this in not a big deal, as the CPP is not our pension, but an egg in the basket for most people in canada.

In Europe, the government pensions are much larger and for a lot of people is their entire basket, I'm sure most of these people can't retire until they can collect it. When I was offered a job last year in Italy the pension deduction was huge, leaving you very little to fund supplementary retirement options. There were no company pension option and I was led to believe this was the norm. Germany was the same and I would expect France is similar.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Corporate tax rate on profits in France is already at 27.5%, which is already second highest in Europe. That isn't pocket change.

The truth is it's a country with a ton of social spending, and they need more than what corporate taxation can provide.

Yeah it's pretty black and white to me as well. They can't afford the current system so they have to change it to a system they can afford. Sorry reality sucks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by speede5

I can't believe how many of you are ok with this.

CPP is mandatory, they take your money to fund it and you can only collect when they decide, you make plans for your retirement from a young age and they change the rules whenever they manage the money poorly.

The fund is full of monies paid by people who die before even reaching the age, and I'm willing to bet a high percentage of people die off before they even recoop their contributions.

We aren't all making CP money, this pension is something a lot of us need, and since we've paid into it, we also deserve the benefits as they were described when we started contributing. The only reason it's "underfunded" is cause the governement keeps dipping in to fund their ineptitude.

Also, it may be easy to think this in not a big deal, as the CPP is not our pension, but an egg in the basket for most people in canada.

In Europe, the government pensions are much larger and for a lot of people is their entire basket, I'm sure most of these people can't retire until they can collect it. When I was offered a job last year in Italy the pension deduction was huge, leaving you very little to fund supplementary retirement options. There were no company pension option and I was led to believe this was the norm. Germany was the same and I would expect France is similar.

To be honest with you, in almost every Pension discussion we've ever had on this board I've been very clearly saying the same thing.

People who are worried about their Pensions shouldnt be worried about little rule curtailments like this or lowered payments or deferred age regulations.

The fact that those things are happening are clues to the underlying and inherent problem which is that these programs are perilously close to complete and utter collapse.

"I have to wait a few years!!" Is a whole lot better than "Its gone. You get nothing."

A lot of these Pension Programs, especially Government Pension programs, are Ponzi schemes.

Not in the 'its a scam' sort of way, but in the fact that you need new people and fresh blood to enter into them so that their contributions are paying the retired people.

If that flow of fresh blood, or in the Ponzi theme, 'Flow of Suckers,' stops or slows or trickles to a halt then the whole thing collapses.

Again, messing with People's pensions is not being done for Political Brownie Points, its being done because it probably very desperately has to.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

This isn't the slam dunk post you think it is when you stop for a second to realize that this whole issue is about maintaining solvency in a major socialist program. I wish things were different, but with rapidly aging populations and not enough young people being born to enter the work force and pay for the program, it's a crisis of demographics. What a ridiculous capitalist pig I am though, right?

So how does this make them lazy? Quite frankly, I think it's refreshing to see people willing to go out and protest these things rather than just rolling over and accepting it like we do in North America.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by speede5

I can't believe how many of you are ok with this.

CPP is mandatory, they take your money to fund it and you can only collect when they decide, you make plans for your retirement from a young age and they change the rules whenever they manage the money poorly.

The fund is full of monies paid by people who die before even reaching the age, and I'm willing to bet a high percentage of people die off before they even recoop their contributions.

We aren't all making CP money, this pension is something a lot of us need, and since we've paid into it, we also deserve the benefits as they were described when we started contributing. The only reason it's "underfunded" is cause the governement keeps dipping in to fund their ineptitude.

Also, it may be easy to think this in not a big deal, as the CPP is not our pension, but an egg in the basket for most people in canada.

In Europe, the government pensions are much larger and for a lot of people is their entire basket, I'm sure most of these people can't retire until they can collect it. When I was offered a job last year in Italy the pension deduction was huge, leaving you very little to fund supplementary retirement options. There were no company pension option and I was led to believe this was the norm. Germany was the same and I would expect France is similar.

Where to start. So, CPP is in fact a pension and like any other defined-benefit pension it's subject to the rules and regulations of that pension. They don't just "change the rules" whenever they'd like. You can begin withdrawals from this plan at age 60, and it's your option between then and age 70. You can still wait at age 70, but the pension benefit is capped at that age and you won't get more of a monthly pension by waiting longer.

And CPP is not underfunded, and it has even less to do with "government ineptitude". It's independent. The funds are managed by CPPIB, and frankly they're globally recognized as being excellent stewards of the capital.

And you can make these kinds of bets about whether people are collecting their money from CPP or not, but the statistics are likely going to surprise you. With CPP, it's contribution based. In other words, you get a benefit commensurate with your contributions. Those payments into CPP cannot be used for anything other than paying you a retirement benefit, and there's nothing underhanded like that taking place. It's not contingent on which party is power or anything like that. And perhaps the biggest factor of all, is that you can't outlive the benefit.

Is the rate of return the greatest ever? No. Can people probably get a better rate of return on their investments? Probably. But it's also supplemented by your employer, and again gives you a guaranteed income for as long as you live. That's not something that you just automatically get, even with the majority of white-collar positions these days.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Maybe the companies who make billions off the backs of the workers should fill the gap then.

This probably doesn’t help as imich as one might think as increasing taxation will directly reduce dividends and share price. These dividends are going back to the various state and union and company pension funds and private retirement savings

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by speede5

I can't believe how many of you are ok with this.

CPP is mandatory, they take your money to fund it and you can only collect when they decide, you make plans for your retirement from a young age and they change the rules whenever they manage the money poorly.

The fund is full of monies paid by people who die before even reaching the age, and I'm willing to bet a high percentage of people die off before they even recoop their contributions.

We aren't all making CP money, this pension is something a lot of us need, and since we've paid into it, we also deserve the benefits as they were described when we started contributing. The only reason it's "underfunded" is cause the governement keeps dipping in to fund their ineptitude.

Also, it may be easy to think this in not a big deal, as the CPP is not our pension, but an egg in the basket for most people in canada.

In Europe, the government pensions are much larger and for a lot of people is their entire basket, I'm sure most of these people can't retire until they can collect it. When I was offered a job last year in Italy the pension deduction was huge, leaving you very little to fund supplementary retirement options. There were no company pension option and I was led to believe this was the norm. Germany was the same and I would expect France is similar.

Our retirement age in Canada is 65.


France is going from 62 to 64. Hard for me to feel sorry for them for this.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by speede5

I can't believe how many of you are ok with this.

CPP is mandatory, they take your money to fund it and you can only collect when they decide, you make plans for your retirement from a young age and they change the rules whenever they manage the money poorly.

The fund is full of monies paid by people who die before even reaching the age, and I'm willing to bet a high percentage of people die off before they even recoop their contributions.

We aren't all making CP money, this pension is something a lot of us need, and since we've paid into it, we also deserve the benefits as they were described when we started contributing. The only reason it's "underfunded" is cause the governement keeps dipping in to fund their ineptitude.

Also, it may be easy to think this in not a big deal, as the CPP is not our pension, but an egg in the basket for most people in canada.

In Europe, the government pensions are much larger and for a lot of people is their entire basket, I'm sure most of these people can't retire until they can collect it. When I was offered a job last year in Italy the pension deduction was huge, leaving you very little to fund supplementary retirement options. There were no company pension option and I was led to believe this was the norm. Germany was the same and I would expect France is similar.

If the plan is underfunded it means that everyone has underpaid. Increasing the retirement age seems like the most fair way to deal with this. If you were to just increase contributions or fund through taxation you are further forcing the young to subsidize the old.

[FlamesAddiction]

I am guessing there must be some kind of grandfathering, like if someone is 62 and just retired, they aren't going to have to go back to work, because that would suck.

I am not sure something like this helps in the long run. In a couple years, all the people who would have retired sooner will be retiring anyway, and there are only so many jobs to go around. It kind of sucks for the whole work force because as people retire, others get to move up, and jobs open for young people at the bottom.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Our retirement age in Canada is 65.

France is going from 62 to 64. Hard for me to feel sorry for them for this.

Not really, you can retire and begin collecting CPP at age 60. It's reduced, but for most people in France, their pension is reduced if they begin collecting at age 62 as well.

Unless you meet the contributory period for a full pension (I believe it's 43 years of steady contributions), you have to wait until age 67 for a full pension (vs. 65 in Canada) and then later retirees can get a bonus on top of that of 5% per year (vs. 8.4%/year in Canada).

[Harry Lime]

They are playing out the difference between governance and politics. I wish North American officials would govern once in a while. "Here's the facts. Here's what we need to do. We are going to do it." No spin. Good for Macron.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Locke

To be honest with you, in almost every Pension discussion we've ever had on this board I've been very clearly saying the same thing.

People who are worried about their Pensions shouldnt be worried about little rule curtailments like this or lowered payments or deferred age regulations.

The fact that those things are happening are clues to the underlying and inherent problem which is that these programs are perilously close to complete and utter collapse.

"I have to wait a few years!!" Is a whole lot better than "Its gone. You get nothing."

A lot of these Pension Programs, especially Government Pension programs, are Ponzi schemes.

Not in the 'its a scam' sort of way, but in the fact that you need new people and fresh blood to enter into them so that their contributions are paying the retired people.

If that flow of fresh blood, or in the Ponzi theme, 'Flow of Suckers,' stops or slows or trickles to a halt then the whole thing collapses.

Again, messing with People's pensions is not being done for Political Brownie Points, its being done because it probably very desperately has to.

Maybe I know nothing, but didn't CERB and other similar pay outs get loaned out of pension savings?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Locke

To be honest with you, in almost every Pension discussion we've ever had on this board I've been very clearly saying the same thing.

People who are worried about their Pensions shouldnt be worried about little rule curtailments like this or lowered payments or deferred age regulations.

The fact that those things are happening are clues to the underlying and inherent problem which is that these programs are perilously close to complete and utter collapse.

"I have to wait a few years!!" Is a whole lot better than "Its gone. You get nothing."

A lot of these Pension Programs, especially Government Pension programs, are Ponzi schemes.

Not in the 'its a scam' sort of way, but in the fact that you need new people and fresh blood to enter into them so that their contributions are paying the retired people.

If that flow of fresh blood, or in the Ponzi theme, 'Flow of Suckers,' stops or slows or trickles to a halt then the whole thing collapses.

Again, messing with People's pensions is not being done for Political Brownie Points, its being done because it probably very desperately has to.

People are always shocked when I explain this to them but I don't understand why. The system relies on constant growth. Our whole economy is set up that way. Well, we're looking at the end of that growth.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

This isn't the slam dunk post you think it is when you stop for a second to realize that this whole issue is about maintaining solvency in a major socialist program. I wish things were different, but with rapidly aging populations and not enough young people being born to enter the work force and pay for the program, it's a crisis of demographics. What a ridiculous capitalist pig I am though, right?

rubecube is mostly a fool. Just another overfed, rich white guy that likes to wax poetic about social programs while sitting on a pile of money.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

They are playing out the difference between governance and politics. I wish North American officials would govern once in a while. "Here's the facts. Here's what we need to do. We are going to do it." No spin. Good for Macron.

CPP payments have gone up a lot since I started real work in 1997. $969 max, now $3754. Remember that employer also pays.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Shazam

rubecube is mostly a fool. Just another overfed, rich white guy that likes to wax poetic about social programs while sitting on a pile of money.

I’m 99% sure Cali has admitted to also being an overfed, rich white guy and he’s currently waxing poetic about social programs while sitting on his metaphorical pile of money, so I don’t know if this barb is going to land the way you want it to.