Protests in France

[Jacks]

It's not like Canadians are superior to the French on this

When Harper tried to do the same thing people lost their minds.

People are living longer, the retirement age needs to be raised.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by bluejays

There are two sides to every story. It's a bit inauthentic to call yourself a democracy and just shove such a change down.

Disagree, some things are unpopular but necessary. As much as I hated Chretien's arrogance and corruption he made the right decision when he cut the budget to get the country back to financial health, he never would have won an election if he ran on that. Governments first job should be to do what is right for the country. If you put everything to a vote the people would vote for lower taxes and higher entitlements every single time. People are idiots.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

French people are lazy, entitled, and overuse their right to protest.

Yeah, I said it.

Every time I've visited there's been some interruption of some civil service because of a protest or a strike. That's not a functioning society and it's ripe for a big fall in the near future with so many countries populations becoming economically competitive.

Adapt or die...or just protest until it's too late.

That being said. I don't like Macron strong-arming it through, but it does seem like he needs to smack the French population over the head with a sense of the reality they all face. It's a calculated gamble to challenge a vote of no-confidence. We'll see how this plays out, but Macron is no dummy.

We know all about it, we have our own little France up here.

[Fuzz]

You would think it would make sense to phase it in over a few years. Those very close to retiring don't really get time to adjust.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Disagree, some things are unpopular but necessary. As much as I hated Chretien's arrogance and corruption he made the right decision when he cut the budget to get the country back to financial health, he never would have won an election if he ran on that. Governments first job should be to do what is right for the country. If you put everything to a vote the people would vote for lower taxes and higher entitlements every single time. People are idiots.

Agreed. But there have to be checks and balances for these major decisions. If nobody has the ability to question them, who's to say their decision is the best one? I don't like bureaucracy as that is just a waste of taxpayer money and an easy road to getting nothing done but there has to be a medium to allow critique.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You would think it would make sense to phase it in over a few years. Those very close to retiring don't really get time to adjust.

I honestly don't think they have the budget space to do that. Things are likely a lot closer to collapse than they are letting on. These funds and pensions all survive on tax revenue and investment income, which has been abysmal since the pandemic. Meanwhile input costs have been soaring.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Agreed. But there have to be checks and balances for these major decisions. If nobody has the ability to question them, who's to say their decision is the best one? I don't like bureaucracy as that is just a waste of taxpayer money and an easy road to getting nothing done but there has to be a medium to allow critique.

Checks and balances don't mean a referendum on every issue. The judges decide if legislation is constitutional. Macron isn't doing this for personal gain. In fact, he's risking his political career with an insanely unpopular move.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

Checks and balances don't mean a referendum on every issue. The judges decide if legislation is constitutional. Macron isn't doing this for personal gain. In fact, he's risking his political career with an insanely unpopular move.

Referendums can also lead to ridiculously stupid decisions (see Brexit or any of the countless dumb US measures or whatever they call it when they have their votes on cannabis legalization or whatever).

If you have a referendum on it - the options aren't going to be presented as - a) increase pension age or b) pay more taxes/pension to fund it as it is now. It will be evil plan to screw people vs good guy plan to keep the status quo. Evil plan solves a problem, the other just punts it down the road a bit.

[PepsiFree]

You vote in leaders/parties/representatives not just so they can check off the list of things they said they would do, but because you trust them to make the hard decisions as well. People don’t seem to understand that for whatever reason (I’m remember the complaints about Notley not “running on” a carbon tax in Alberta, something which all provinces were forced to adopt and which she made the best of).

You vote in the person you believe will represent your interests. If that turns out to be untrue, you don’t vote for them next time. This idea that everything should be a referendum or that politicians should do anything they didn’t explicitly campaign on is extremely silly. there should be checks and balances to ensure things are legal/constitutional/without corruption/etc but not to ensure every decision is approved by everyone, that’s called an election and it already happened.

And yes, retirement/pension age needs to go up, probably further than the French did here, almost everywhere. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that retirement will look nothing like it looks now by the time I get there and won’t be protesting any increase when it comes down the line.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I dunno. I don’t know the ins and outs of French retirement rules. But if you planned and worked your life to retire at 62 and the government decides you have to work another 2 years id be very upset.

It may be a bummer for a lot of people close to 62 but two years isn't the end of the world especially when 62 was a very low entry relative to most countries. I understand why people wouldn't be unhappy but sometimes you have to look at the big picture and realize that these things are bigger than what's best for you.

[undercoverbrother]

French better not coming knocking when WW3 kicks off.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Disagree, some things are unpopular but necessary. As much as I hated Chretien's arrogance and corruption he made the right decision when he cut the budget to get the country back to financial health, he never would have won an election if he ran on that. Governments first job should be to do what is right for the country. If you put everything to a vote the people would vote for lower taxes and higher entitlements every single time. People are idiots.

Lol Chretien had no choice in the matter. It was either massive cuts or gov't bonds were going to be junk and the CAD$ would be near worthless.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Lol Chretien had no choice in the matter. It was either massive cuts or gov't bonds were going to be junk and the CAD$ would be near worthless.

But that's the point. The average person doesn't understand (or maybe even care) about that... They just want their programs and entitlements, damned what it actually takes to provide them.

[TorqueDog]

Unrest in France? Oooh, we're gonna get to see some water cannons!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Unrest in France? Oooh, we're gonna get to see some water cannons!

If things get really serious, they might even cut off the head of their head of state. There is precedence.

[TorqueDog]

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by you&me

But that's the point. The average person doesn't understand (or maybe even care) about that... They just want their programs and entitlements, damned what it actually takes to provide them.

I'm just saying that Chretien didn't really have a choice in the matter.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It may be a bummer for a lot of people close to 62 but two years isn't the end of the world especially when 62 was a very low entry relative to most countries. I understand why people wouldn't be unhappy but sometimes you have to look at the big picture and realize that these things are bigger than what's best for you.

Sounds like an advertisement for climate initiatives.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

French people are lazy, entitled, and overuse their right to protest.

Yeah, I said it.

Every time I've visited there's been some interruption of some civil service because of a protest or a strike. That's not a functioning society and it's ripe for a big fall in the near future with so many countries populations becoming economically competitive.

Adapt or die...or just protest until it's too late.

That being said. I don't like Macron strong-arming it through, but it does seem like he needs to smack the French population over the head with a sense of the reality they all face. It's a calculated gamble to challenge a vote of no-confidence. We'll see how this plays out, but Macron is no dummy.

Posts like this really demonstrate how good capitalist propaganda/Protestant work ethic BS is.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Posts like this really demonstrate how good capitalist propaganda/Protestant work ethic BS is.

Interesting thing is...if I had posted something like that you folks would be all over me, calling me this and that and I would have a message from a mod.