Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 11-19-2022, 12:31 AM   #121
Snuffleupagus
Franchise Player
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Familia View Post
Wish we had some new ownership groups preparing a bid to buy the team. God I hate CSEC and our current useless ownership group. Such little vision or passion for any of their teams.
Yeah, they're cheap and do nothing for the community
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2022, 04:33 AM   #122
liamenator
First Line Centre
 
liamenator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
I'm surprised that its valued so high.
The rest of the world has finally figured out that professional sports franchises are loss leaders for real estate and development plays. The value of the Lebreton Flats deal is astronomical. It's like 7 acres of prime riverfront land that's already on an LRT line, a stones throw from Parliament & downtown, but also walking distance to central neighbourhoods that have gentrified (Hintonburg) or are rapidly doing so (Chinatown, Little Italy).

There are no slam dunks. Flames fans know this more than anyone. But my understanding is that with Melnyk gone, and with a new mayor and council that supports building a downtown arena, the Lebreton deal is sitting on a silver platter for whoever buys the team.
liamenator is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to liamenator For This Useful Post:
Old 11-19-2022, 01:27 PM   #123
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liamenator View Post
The rest of the world has finally figured out that professional sports franchises are loss leaders for real estate and development plays. The value of the Lebreton Flats deal is astronomical. It's like 7 acres of prime riverfront land that's already on an LRT line, a stones throw from Parliament & downtown, but also walking distance to central neighbourhoods that have gentrified (Hintonburg) or are rapidly doing so (Chinatown, Little Italy).

There are no slam dunks. Flames fans know this more than anyone. But my understanding is that with Melnyk gone, and with a new mayor and council that supports building a downtown arena, the Lebreton deal is sitting on a silver platter for whoever buys the team.
Interesting. Thanks for that.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 11-19-2022, 01:55 PM   #124
CaptainYooh
Franchise Player
 
CaptainYooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Giant real estate development projects in relatively small real estate markets are rarely successful. There is just not enough critical mass to support them. Edmonton Ice District is a very good benchmark comparison. While the new arena is beautiful and 50% taxpayer-funded, it did not spark the area redevelopment, but merely catalysed a few new buildings. It is still a dump and will be a dump for many more years. In these markets, only prolonged periods of strong economy and strong job market encourage high in-migration, which in turn promotes higher real estate demand supporting larger-size developments.

NHL franchises are great investments on their own merits due to its cartel structure and reasonably high interest in pro-hockey in several markets. Plus, as evidenced around the whole world of pro-sports, team ownership is a highly sought after status symbol for super-wealthy.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
CaptainYooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2022, 06:26 PM   #125
liamenator
First Line Centre
 
liamenator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainYooh View Post
Giant real estate development projects in relatively small real estate markets are rarely successful. There is just not enough critical mass to support them. Edmonton Ice District is a very good benchmark comparison. While the new arena is beautiful and 50% taxpayer-funded, it did not spark the area redevelopment, but merely catalysed a few new buildings. It is still a dump and will be a dump for many more years. In these markets, only prolonged periods of strong economy and strong job market encourage high in-migration, which in turn promotes higher real estate demand supporting larger-size developments.

NHL franchises are great investments on their own merits due to its cartel structure and reasonably high interest in pro-hockey in several markets. Plus, as evidenced around the whole world of pro-sports, team ownership is a highly sought after status symbol for super-wealthy.

Well, I just don't think you can generalize in this way. Each development project is specific to the location in which it exists. We can't just look at population sizes and then assume it's apples to apples. The comparison with Edmonton doesn't hold on at least two fronts:
  • LeBreton Flats is not a giant development plan that puts all its eggs the arena basket to catalyze activity in a currently under-utilized or undesirable area, and it's not about remediating an old industrial zone. This makes it different from Edmonton. If memory serves (happy to be corrected here), the area of E=NG's downtown where ICE district is being developed was a relative deadzone compared to the land we are talking about in Ottawa. LeBreton Flats is already woven into the fabric of central Ottawa, and huge pieces of redeveloping the area are already underway. The arena will slide into a parcel of land next to the new Library and Archives Canada facility (currently being built), the still new-ish National War Museum, two relatively new LRT stations, and along the Ottawa River Pathway, which is probably the most used leisure pathway in the region. To its south, literally across the street, is Chinatown/Little Italy, a community with 10,000 residents and a number of new developments and LRT stations about to come online. To its north, the Zibi redevelopment of Chaudierre Falls/Albert Island, which projects to house another 5000 residents, is nearing completion. So it's not about using the area to catalyze growth or use. It presents prospective buyers the opportunity to fold an arena and whatever they build around it into an existing hub.
  • You mention that to succeed, these developments need "prolonged periods of strong economy and strong job market" to encourage immigration and create demand. Well, Ottawa is already one of the fastest growing urban centres with among the highest average incomes and most stable economies in the country. It doesn't have bonanza potential like Calgary, Edmonton, or Vancouver, but neither does it suffer from the vagaries of the markets to which those cities are tied. It's not a boom and bust town, it's about slow and steady growth. Public sector jobs have a lower ceiling but are much more stable compared to e.g. Oil & Gas. I know Edmonton is a provincial capital, but we are talking orders of magnitude of difference compared to a national capital. Even Ottawa's tech sector reflects this slow, stable model -- it's based in large enterprise software and telecomms infrastructure rather than tech start-ups. This is anecdotal, but my sense is that a huge number of young, wealthy families are moving to Ottawa, which has historically had an undervalued real estate market, because they are priced out of Toronto.
Last thing: another important dimension that is specific to Ottawa is the National Capital Commission, which will own the land and is controlling the redevelopment process. My sense is that once you are on good terms with the NCC, all things are possible. There's value in that for a prospective buyer and its development partners, which adds to the appeal of purchasing the team (in addition to the things you list about prestige and actual monetary value of the franchise's operations -- no disagreement that they add value, it's just that these other factors are more valuable).
liamenator is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to liamenator For This Useful Post:
Old 12-05-2022, 04:33 PM   #126
Iginla
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Iginla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Exp:
Default

FWIW Ryan Reynolds was promoting Canadian Tire today (on his IG account), who happen to be a large sponsor of the Senators.
Iginla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2023, 07:25 PM   #127
CalgaryFan1988
Franchise Player
 
CalgaryFan1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Exp:
Default

Ryan Reynolds Sells Mint Mobile Company in $1.35 Billion Deal

https://www.etonline.com/ryan-reynol...in-the-process

Is Reynolds liquidating assets to make a play for the Sens?

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/nhl-ottaw...161243723.html

Ottawa Senators sale: Ryan Reynolds joins Toronto-based group on bid to buy team

Last edited by CalgaryFan1988; 03-16-2023 at 07:00 AM.
CalgaryFan1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CalgaryFan1988 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-18-2023, 07:02 PM   #128
sureLoss
Some kinda newsbreaker!
 
sureLoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
Exp:
Default

on HNIC Friedman said that talking to people involved in the bidding process the top bid is believed to be at $925 mil USD.

These are non binding bids.

next phase is looking at how real all bidders financing is

There are some bids close to the high bid, and some quite a bit lower, but need to be around the 900M mark to be seriously considered.
sureLoss is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sureLoss For This Useful Post:
Old 03-18-2023, 07:35 PM   #129
Vedder
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Man, that’s a big number (USD!) for a small market team without a viable long term rink. I just don’t believe it.
Vedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 07:45 PM   #130
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

It’s not that teams are profitable. It’s the scarcity of pro sports franchises and the fact that the world seems to be producing increasing number of billionaires.

And yet taxpayers need to pony up for arenas…
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Strange Brew For This Useful Post:
Old 03-18-2023, 07:52 PM   #131
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder View Post
Man, that’s a big number (USD!) for a small market team without a viable long term rink. I just don’t believe it.
This is new over the last decade or so. It seems things really shifted after the NBA suddenly came out and started valuing their franchises at insane levels with no team being under $1 bil. Have you checked those lately, it's crazy.

NBA top 5

Golden State - $7.5b
Knicks - $6.5b
Lakers - $6.4b
Bulls - $4b
Celtics - $3.9

NBA bottom 3

Minnesota - $1.7b
Memphis - $1.6
New Orleans - $1.6
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
Old 03-18-2023, 07:56 PM   #132
dammage79
Franchise Player
 
dammage79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Gotta say, Ryan Reynolds really has made the most of his opportunity. Does well in the Gin business, Sold Mint for a pretty penny, has plenty of other sponsorship dollars rolling in on top of the movie career. Impressive. And that's not including buying a 3rd tier soccer team on a whim
__________________
"Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
dammage79 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dammage79 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-18-2023, 07:59 PM   #133
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

To put things in perspective with NBA valuations, though.

Toronto Maple Leafs are 2nd in the NHL at $2b with an absolute rabid, ticket buying fanbase. The Toronto Raptors that are a clear cut and distant second fiddle to the Leafs in Toronto are actually 8th in the NBA, valued at $3.3b.
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 08:01 PM   #134
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79 View Post
Gotta say, Ryan Reynolds really has made the most of his opportunity. Does well in the Gin business, Sold Mint for a pretty penny, has plenty of other sponsorship dollars rolling in on top of the movie career. Impressive. And that's not including buying a 3rd tier soccer team on a whim
He'll be a huge add for that franchise. Can't wait to see what they do with new owners and a downtown Ottawa rink. Everyone talks about the old guard and how nobody moves from the Leafs and Habs. But kids are kids and if a movie star starts making them "cool" you never what the future holds.

Ultimately, wins are what gain fans of course. And I have way more faith in a rock to build this franchise than the previous owner, so...
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2023, 07:45 AM   #135
Sidney Crosby's Hat
Franchise Player
 
Sidney Crosby's Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
This is new over the last decade or so. It seems things really shifted after the NBA suddenly came out and started valuing their franchises at insane levels with no team being under $1 bil. Have you checked those lately, it's crazy.

NBA top 5

Golden State - $7.5b
Knicks - $6.5b
Lakers - $6.4b
Bulls - $4b
Celtics - $3.9

NBA bottom 3

Minnesota - $1.7b
Memphis - $1.6
New Orleans - $1.6
I feel like everything started when Ballmer bid $2 billion for the Clippers. At the time Forbes had them valued at $575 million. Everyone thought he was crazy but he's already doubled that investment.
Sidney Crosby's Hat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2023, 08:35 AM   #136
Jordan!
Jordan!
 
Jordan!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat View Post
I feel like everything started when Ballmer bid $2 billion for the Clippers. At the time Forbes had them valued at $575 million. Everyone thought he was crazy but he's already doubled that investment.
The Suns just sold at a $4 billion valuation
Jordan! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2023, 08:54 AM   #137
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
He'll be a huge add for that franchise. Can't wait to see what they do with new owners and a downtown Ottawa rink. Everyone talks about the old guard and how nobody moves from the Leafs and Habs. But kids are kids and if a movie star starts making them "cool" you never what the future holds.

Ultimately, wins are what gain fans of course. And I have way more faith in a rock to build this franchise than the previous owner, so...
What makes Reynolds successful is leveraging his fame and popularity into his business investments. When you have a good, clean reputation and a relatively unscathed following- this is the foundation for marketing his companies.

So when he goes and buys the Senators and inevitably ends up at odds with the city to pull on the heart strings begging for taxpayer money when he himself is rich enough to buy a pro sports franchise, I wonder how that clean, excellent game and reputation hold up?
Mr.Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2023, 08:58 AM   #138
The Yen Man
Franchise Player
 
The Yen Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

If they did a similar docu-series to the Wrexham FC series for the Sens, I'd be all for it.

I hope Reynolds does become an owner. Most likely he'll be a minority owner, but him leveraging his fame to sell the Sens and the NHL in general would be a huge win for the team and the league IMO.
The Yen Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2023, 08:05 AM   #139
sureLoss
Some kinda newsbreaker!
 
sureLoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
Exp:
Default

Garrioch reporting that the group including Ryan Reynolds is preparing a bid for over $1 Billion US for the Senators and CTC. May 15 is the deadline for final bids.

https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/...d-for-senators

Last edited by sureLoss; 04-28-2023 at 08:08 AM.
sureLoss is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sureLoss For This Useful Post:
Old 04-28-2023, 08:20 AM   #140
ComixZone
Franchise Player
 
ComixZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default

I hope Reynolds' bid is the one that wins at the end of the day.

The show/documentary that we'd get because of it would be one of the best pieces of off-ice content ever for the NHL/hockey fans. I'd then hope that other teams would begin to do similar projects.
ComixZone is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:00 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021