When will next season start? Return to Play Negotiations

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Don't recall this. It sounds like a hilarious read. Is there a source, or who was the player?

Took a quick look and couldn't find it... I forget who it was but the letter was memorable because it broke the veil of silence from the union. He also "penned" it in front of his fireplace while drinking Old Vienna or some other such beer. Maybe someone else will have better luck finding it or remembering it.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I normally never feel bad for the owners, but the more I read about this, the more I think its really the players that are the ones at fault here. They were the ones fighting for the 50/50 revenue split with the 2013 CBA, but now that revenues have disappeared for a year or two, they don't seem to want that 50/50 split anymore. All this escrow / deferred salary / % of original salary talk is really smoke and mirrors to try and get them more then 50% of revenues, no?

I understand it sucks that you signed a contract for $X million, but your only going to get 30% or whatever of that, but that's how the 50/50 revenue split works - revenue goes in the tank, so does your salary.

I’m pretty sure the players fought AGAINST the 50/50 split. Not for it.

In 2004/2005, it was the owners that wanted linkage but the players preferred the current system.

In 2013, the owners wanted 50/50 as the players were currently getting 57%

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I’m pretty sure the players fought AGAINST the 50/50 split. Not for it.

In 2004/2005, it was the owners that wanted linkage but the players preferred the current system.

In 2013, the owners wanted 50/50 as the players were currently getting 57%

They fought against going from 57% to 50%, naturally, but that doesn't imply that they were against revenue sharing in general.

Even though they originally didn't want it, it quickly became apparent to them that it meant more escalating salaries.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

And don't forget, owners opened the 12-13 negotiations at 44% for the players.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Nope, the bolded are wrong. In the before times, owners paid into escrow the same as players, and players would get back more than their full share of escrow in the event of higher than projected HRR.

One of the biggest problems has always been the design of the salary cap and that more teams spend more above the mid point than below. And it's a positive feedback loop, as once that is the case every 'cap dollar' only cost like $0.95 in real money.

Yeah thanks. I found an article that discusses this a little too.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/a...-that-all-mean

They negotiated a 50/50 split of revenue and included so many complicating factors like escalators etc. that the agreement is straying from a pure sharing of revenues.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I am starting to think that the NHL returns in September 2021, I just don't see a way to play given the lack of fans and the general mood of society. I don't think that I have heard a single friend or coworker complain about the lack of an NHL season. I think that an interesting question will be what to do with contracts if there is no season, do they all slide one year?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I am starting to think that the NHL returns in September 2021, I just don't see a way to play given the lack of fans and the general mood of society. I don't think that I have heard a single friend or coworker complain about the lack of an NHL season. I think that an interesting question will be what to do with contracts if there is no season, do they all slide one year?

I don't see any way they let this season go. They can't afford for the sport to lose the audience.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I’m pretty sure the players fought AGAINST the 50/50 split. Not for it.

In 2004/2005, it was the owners that wanted linkage but the players preferred the current system.

In 2013, the owners wanted 50/50 as the players were currently getting 57%

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They fought against going from 57% to 50%, naturally, but that doesn't imply that they were against revenue sharing in general.

Even though they originally didn't want it, it quickly became apparent to them that it meant more escalating salaries.

Okay, so I went back and looked at what happened, and I was wrong about the players fighting for their salaries tied to revenue. If you go way back to the 2004-05 lock-out, they basically lost the season over fighting against a cap and having their salaries tied to revenues. Then the 2012 lockout they lost some of the revenue sharing that they were forced to back in 2005 (from 57% to 50%).

Now I'm conflicted on which side I like worse. It seems like the owners have slowly over time made things better and better for them by basically stopping hockey and forcing the players to agree to slightly worse conditions (so are they doing the same thing again here?) However, the players did agree to share revenues and now revenues are gone, so its hard to argue to get paid more than what you previously agreed (even though you were kind of forced to by the owners way back then?)

Both sides suck.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't see any way they let this season go. They can't afford for the sport to lose the audience.

Unfortunately both sides have shown they’re willing to lose the audience and arguably this year this impact would be less than in the past.

But as reported elsewhere, ticking a year off the current US TV deal should be a motivator for both sides.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I am starting to think that the NHL returns in September 2021, I just don't see a way to play given the lack of fans and the general mood of society. I don't think that I have heard a single friend or coworker complain about the lack of an NHL season. I think that an interesting question will be what to do with contracts if there is no season, do they all slide one year?

I've had an opposite experience where all of my close group of friends are really missing hockey and would love to be able to watch hockey while being locked inside on most days.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I am starting to think that the NHL returns in September 2021, I just don't see a way to play given the lack of fans and the general mood of society. I don't think that I have heard a single friend or coworker complain about the lack of an NHL season. I think that an interesting question will be what to do with contracts if there is no season, do they all slide one year?

Nobody's talking about it probably because nothing's happening. People are praying for pretty much anything as far as I've seen. My brother and I were excited to watch boxing on the weekend, when normally it probably wouldn't be mentioned.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Took a quick look and couldn't find it... I forget who it was but the letter was memorable because it broke the veil of silence from the union. He also "penned" it in front of his fireplace while drinking Old Vienna or some other such beer. Maybe someone else will have better luck finding it or remembering it.

It was Krys Barch

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rticle4581018/

He has, almost overnight, become the voice of the locked-out NHL player, even as regular-season games are on the verge of being cancelled.

Far from a Sidney Crosby or Jonathan Toews, Krys Barch is one of the game's more unlikely spokesmen – one who has quite literally punched his ticket into the league and through a modest 304 games as a 12th forward on the end of the bench.

But Saturday night, Barch took to Twitter to vent his frustrations in a series of 26 messages that left the hockey world debating what he had said for much of the next two days.

It was colourful. It was alcohol-fuelled. It wasn't politically correct.

The last thing the New Jersey Devils enforcer expected was for it to become anything more than a one-off "rant from the heart," as he pondered his life in the game on his sofa in rural Grand Bend, Ont.

"It came out of drinking eight or 10 OV [Old Vienna beer] and a bottle of port just like so many other Canadians have done up at the cottage somewhere," Barch said on Monday with a chuckle. "Have some beers and thoughts start rolling through your head. I just grabbed a pen and started to write it down.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I've had an opposite experience where all of my close group of friends are really missing hockey and would love to be able to watch hockey while being locked inside on most days.

I guess we just run in different circles but most of the conversations I have seem to involve parenting stuff now. It just doesn't seem like a priority and I really watched the heck out of hockey this past summer.

As for the sport not being able to afford a year off, it managed to survive a year lost to a lockout so I think it would survive this.

[keenan87]

I don't get it.. why is it always the NHL that can't get their #### together??

A few lockouts, not going to the Olympics, this current mess - every other major league usually figures stuff out. Why is it always the NHL that is so incompetent?

If there is no season this year, that's like 4 incomplete seasons over the past 16 years.. 25% .. 2 will be due to the pandemic but that's still pretty bad.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I guess we just run in different circles but most of the conversations I have seem to involve parenting stuff now. It just doesn't seem like a priority and I really watched the heck out of hockey this past summer.

As for the sport not being able to afford a year off, it managed to survive a year lost to a lockout so I think it would survive this.

I think it is age and life for a lot of people. When I was younger, I never missed a game.
Now, when I get home, I have dinner, play with the kid and get her to bed, do chores, maybe chat with the wife for a bit, and the nights done.
The hour I have left to relax before bed, I have no interest in watching sports.
I'm happy to read about it online the next day.

It would be nice if hockey came back, but whatever.

maybe hold off, hope vaccinations start by the spring, and try for a start in May where you might have some fans in attendance, and healthy players.

look at the NFL. it's a joke right now.
I don't even know what they're doing with covid. for two teams, they're willing to keep delaying the game (ravens, steelers)
but for another team (Denver, who had NO quarterbacks), they wouldn't even delay one day.
so slapdash, it's hard to call the season legit some days.

[SuperMatt18]

I think there are probably a lot of owners who are thinking they might be better off just cancelling this season, hope for a vaccine by next September, and just start the season then with hopefully at least some fan attendance and a vaccine for the players.

I think both sides are at fault here to be honest.

Don't love the players side expecting to get 75% of their salary when they are likely only playing about 60% of the games, they need to have more wiggle room there. The league did sign the MOU but the situation back in July when that was signed compared to now has changed and North America is in a worse sport with COVID.

And for owners this is their own fault. They signed the new memorandum with this split and they knew that playing a shortened season without fans was a real risk. IMO they signed this agreement in a rush to try to get the Bubble kicked off, and now they don't love the outcome.

[Monahammer]

Along these lines, would it really be so bad if big money sports died down a bit?

Watching some of the euro games still being played, the hockey is good enough quality to still be very enjoyable. And the atmosphere in those league games is generally a thousand times better than at the saddledome. If tickets were in a more reasonable price range we could bring back more passionate fans to create that atmosphere...

I dont know. Maybe this could end up being a good thing.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Along these lines, would it really be so bad if big money sports died down a bit?

Watching some of the euro games still being played, the hockey is good enough quality to still be very enjoyable. And the atmosphere in those league games is generally a thousand times better than at the saddledome. If tickets were in a more reasonable price range we could bring back more passionate fans to create that atmosphere...

I dont know. Maybe this could end up being a good thing.

Best live hockey experience I ever had (except for 2004) was a game in Frankfurt with 4,000 fans.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I think it is age and life for a lot of people. When I was younger, I never missed a game.
Now, when I get home, I have dinner, play with the kid and get her to bed, do chores, maybe chat with the wife for a bit, and the nights done.
The hour I have left to relax before bed, I have no interest in watching sports.
I'm happy to read about it online the next day.

It would be nice if hockey came back, but whatever.

maybe hold off, hope vaccinations start by the spring, and try for a start in May where you might have some fans in attendance, and healthy players.

look at the NFL. it's a joke right now.
I don't even know what they're doing with covid. for two teams, they're willing to keep delaying the game (ravens, steelers)
but for another team (Denver, who had NO quarterbacks), they wouldn't even delay one day.
so slapdash, it's hard to call the season legit some days.

The NFL is a mess because COVID is a miss.
But there are rationale reasons for why Denver's game wasn't postponed - they repeatedly and overtly defied the protocols, and didn't cooperate as the league was trying to trace the outbreak.

They didn't do their part. The players failed.
Thus - no postponement
Fine with me

[Locke]

Originally Posted by troutman

Best live hockey experience I ever had (except for 2004) was a game in Frankfurt with 4,000 fans.

I dont doubt it...but that probably wasnt in a stadium with the capacity for 20,000.

It makes a big difference.