[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

Athletes on any team know who is good, who is struggling, who deserves to be sent down, who deserves to play up in the lineup, etc...



The need to keep Hamilton's non NHL caliber brother as a "practice player" on the roster is a huge factor in his relationship (or lack thereof) with his teammates that gets overshadowed by the museum narrative.

This is a massive issue that gets swept under the rug all the time when people talk about the Hamilton's and the Flames. The relationship was more or less put into fragile territory once the Flames brought Freddie in to placate Dougie, likely knowing full well he was a tweener, at best. They favoured the Hamilton's and it was likely met with some form of resentment from other's within the organization, players and coaches.

You can't fool the guys in the room. A year ago from now, they knew Jankowski deserved a spot and Freddie didn't. You can't sell that to a group of guys who want/expect to win. It's those types of decisions that can sewer your team.

Dougie' a fine defenseman, but if he needs his brother to prop him up to be at his best....Freddie should just retire and move in with Dougie full time. He can be Jonny, Dougie can be Vince (entourage).

[Strange Brew]

I tend to believe most of the off ice stuff with Dougie is just a smoke screen. They got decent value for him in that trade and if you were going to move a defenseman, he made the most sense.

But if there was a problem caused by the situation with his brother, the Flame have no one to blame but themselves for that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is a massive issue that gets swept under the rug all the time when people talk about the Hamilton's and the Flames. The relationship was more or less put into fragile territory once the Flames brought Freddie in to placate Dougie, likely knowing full well he was a tweener, at best. They favoured the Hamilton's and it was likely met with some form of resentment from other's within the organization, players and coaches.

You can't fool the guys in the room. A year ago from now, they knew Jankowski deserved a spot and Freddie didn't. You can't sell that to a group of guys who want/expect to win. It's those types of decisions that can sewer your team.

Dougie' a fine defenseman, but if he needs his brother to prop him up to be at his best....Freddie should just retire and move in with Dougie full time. He can be Jonny, Dougie can be Vince (entourage).

There's no way you keep Jankowski up to sit instead of Freddie. And by the third week Jankowski was a regular and Freddie was still in the press box.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think the Freddie stuff is overblown, and maybe by the Flames players and Dougie himself.

But the guy played with the Sharks and Avs before the Flames and Coyotes after. He may not quite make the Hall of Fame but for eating popcorn most nights he wasn’t a detriment to the team.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by heep223

I've been thinking about Dougie.

Hypothetically, if one of my co-workers didn't show up at an end of year/christmas gathering or something, everyone would be wondering where they are and why they didn't show up to the event. Then if that person wasn't really participating in other team (ie. team building) events during the year, for sure they'd be isolating themselves and if they didn't have good reasons, even if they were a superstar, this would affect the entire group.

I don't buy the "suck it up because he's good" argument. Culture and team building matters, no matter the organization or industry.

I'm glad he's gone tbh. Even without knowing the intimate details, it's just a distraction for everyone.

Wow!

I was at home with the wife and the kids! Well apparently for some that is not a good reason. Not saying you said that but I have heard it before.

You have a superstar employee and you would fire him or her for missing a Christmas party?

Maybe the day before was a 14 hour work day. Spent 3 hours driving to and from work. Suppose to get 8 hours sleep a night. That is 25 hours in a 24 hour day. Not to mention shopping for a few hours for family needs.

I miss the Christmas party to be home with the family and you want to fire me?

Maybe I would just prefer to spend the 3 or 4 hours a Christmas party would take to be with my family. Before I have to do the same thing tomorrow.

Your example was terrible! It was awful, are you human?

Back to hockey! Hamilton was traded and there were issues there.

I am willing to bet missing a Christmas party was not one of them.

For all I know he attended the Christmas party. Maybe his secret santa gift was so wrong!

I am happy we made the trade!

P.S. Want me at next years Christmas Party pay me to attend. I only work with you people because it is a job. I love my family much more than any of you. Some I like lot, your not my family.

If this is antisocial, Damn I am living a dream!

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I am willing to bet missing a Christmas party was not one of them.

For all I know he attended the Christmas party. Maybe his secret santa gift was so wrong

Aww man this sucks, 2 tickets to Telus Spark!

[heep223]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Aww man this sucks, 2 tickets to Telus Spark!

Hey man that’s an awesome gift! Plus Chubey can take his wife and kids and maybe they’ll forgive him for spending a night at the Christmas party.

[Iggy3x]

Back to the trade a bit - Glad to see Ferlund is doing well in CAR with 5 pts already. I still like the trade for the Flames but still happy that he is doing well after all he's been through. Dougie is doing well with 2 assists so far.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

All four players doing well for their teams so far. A very feel-good trade, all things considered.

[dino7c]

The Flames are improved...that is the only thing that matters

Ferland as a UFA will be interesting

[DeluxeMoustache]

Nice snipe tonight by Lindholm

Slick moves by Hanifin

Good for the guys we traded if they are doing well

[Calgary4LIfe]

John Shannon is the one that created the "museum" rumour that has gained a life of its' own. No, Dougie did not skip out on team events to go to museums. Shannon was offering museums as a way to show that Hamilton often did not participate in team events off the ice, preferring to do his own thing rather than say, go to a pub and drink. Shannon himself shot down that whole 'museum' thing a day or two later after it came out.


At any rate, Hamilton hasn't proved himself to be a top-pairing defencemen in Carolina. The other game I noticed he was 5th in TOI, and tonight he was 5th as well. Ferland seems to be doing well, which is great to see, but Hamilton perhaps doesn't have the coach's confidence yet? Will be interesting to see how his tenure goes in Carolina.



My take on Hamilton is that he isn't reliable enough defensively and doesn't utilize teammates effectively enough. Look at Giordano, Brodie and Hanifin - they all make really nice plays at both ends of the ice often. Hamilton had a 'shoot first' mentality, and there were numerous times where he had a teammate wide-open but chose to try a long range shot with the goalie in position and looking at him. He has a crazy good shot, but his assist/point totals would have been higher had he better vision on the ice. Great skater, elite shot, passable defensively, but not reliable. 6th, 4th and now 5th in TOI in the last 3 games. IIRC, Hartley had him on the third pair at times, and never on the first pair.



At any rate, will be interesting to continue seeing if his role in Carolina grows or just stays the same.

[browna]

Hamilton severely protected last year by Gio, who doesn’t get enough credit, allowing Hamilton to be more carefree.

Pretty clear he likes things his way, and his brother being on the active roster, and his roommate was one of those things. He didn’t get that in Boston, and wasn’t thrilled, after two years of having his brother sit 2.5x more times then he played, taking up a roster spot, that the Flames had to cut the cord. So, if he’s thst stubborn and opinionated on how things have to be, maybe only so much layers or manage to or whoever can put up with that. And if there a dangling offer for a lateral move a few years down the line, as presented itself, it’s clear that the calculated risk is worth it.

Again, odd with that talent and size and natural ability that he’s already been traded twice, so there is more to this then most of us really know...but...
...onwards and upwards and I think the Flames come out ahead in this trade sooner than anticipated, as Hanifin looks very good, and active and agile to cover up if he does get out of position. Lindholm looks like a very good fit so far, but if he slumps he’s got a guy like Neal or Tkachuk to fill in while he regains confidence in a lesser role if required.

[activeStick]

In a lot of ways, I think pro sports attracts people of a certain type. Not every athlete that makes the show fits the mould, but I'd wager that the vast majority do. That is, your typical, type A, 'rah rah', aggressive and dominant when on the field or ice of their sport. Being among the best in their sport probably brings that competitive nature out in most people, but not all. I think perhaps, Dougie simply isn't that kind of person, even on the ice. Giordano is a guy that seems mild mannered off the ice, but when on the ice, he's a different guy.

It's the same in other industries as well. I tell the new guys coming up in the firm I work for, that networking and attending the large corporate events is important for their career growth. Some do well in that setting, while others do not. Fact is though, you have a better chance of finding opportunities and moving up faster, if you attend those social events and can make an impression when mingling. Not sure if it's the right thing necessarily, but it most definitely makes a difference.

I'm sort of rambling now, but the odd thing to me is that from everything I hear, it would seem that Dougie is just not your standard athlete or NHLer, socially. But people are right when they bring up his odd photo bombs throughout last season, which are uncharacteristic of a person who is a recluse.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I haven't watched Carolina at all, but just on the Flames front this trade was a complete win so far with how Lindholm and Hanifin are playing

[Bonded]

I hope it continues to turn out well for both teams as the season progresses. I can't say I am too invested in Carolina doing poorly.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think the Freddie stuff is overblown, and maybe by the Flames players and Dougie himself.

But the guy played with the Sharks and Avs before the Flames and Coyotes after. He may not quite make the Hall of Fame but for eating popcorn most nights he wasn’t a detriment to the team.

I don’t think it’s overblown.

He played a grand total of 29 games on the two teams before (parts of 3 seasons) and scored 1 point with a cumulative -7.

He played 8 games for Arizona after, and scored 0 points.

He’s been a total waste of a roster spot for his career. That’s why he’s 26 and not in the NHL OR the AHL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I tend to believe most of the off ice stuff with Dougie is just a smoke screen. They got decent value for him in that trade and if you were going to move a defenseman, he made the most sense.

But if there was a problem caused by the situation with his brother, the Flame have no one to blame but themselves for that.

I think there's something to it, I just can't put my finger on what it is/was.

Did they dislike him?
Did he feel like he didn't belong?

The latter makes more sense to acquire his brother.

On the ice he didn't exactly scream "dialed in" so there could have been something to not hating to lose enough ... will never know.

Hard to ignore the skipped the meeting and then didn't return calls for over a week though (Loubardias) that's pretty damning.

Then you add in this week's odd "only listen to people I respect" thing. That's never going to work in a team environment.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think there's something to it, I just can't put my finger on what it is/was.

Did they dislike him?
Did he feel like he didn't belong?

The latter makes more sense to acquire his brother.

On the ice he didn't exactly scream "dialed in" so there could have been something to not hating to lose enough ... will never know.

Hard to ignore the skipped the meeting and then didn't return calls for over a week though (Loubardias) that's pretty damning.

Then you add in this week's odd "only listen to people I respect" thing. That's never going to work in a team environment.

I think there were enough on ice reasons to justify trading Hamilton, particularly given the return.

But you do have a point. Things weren't perfect. Treliving said it himself post trade. I tend to follow the principle that you can't believe anything a GM says in public, but I will believe his comment that "we want players who want to be here". Hamilton didn't want to be there it seems, and they didn't feel strongly enough about him as a player to try and make it work.

The not hanging out with the team thing? Well, if a guy is giving it all on the ice, I suspect most of that can be forgiven.

[Flash Walken]

Through 4 games Dougie is 5th for icetime among Carolina defenders.