Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I think Gio has a shot, he could potentially win the Norris this season or next, if he does that I’d say it would be likely. I’ll agree that Monahan is very unlikely... Lindholm, I don’t know... he has a pretty incredible skill set, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. And winning the cup always helps.

I think you are vastly overrating these players. They are definitely great and could end up amongst the best Flames of all time, but they are certainly not in the HOF conversation.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think you are vastly overrating these players. They are definitely great and could end up amongst the best Flames of all time, but they are certainly not in the HOF conversation.

You may be right. Currently I’ll leave the conversation at Gaudreau and Gio having any shot at all, even if they are long shots. That might be more realistic.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by VilleN

You may be right. Currently I’ll leave the conversation at Gaudreau and Gio having any shot at all, even if they are long shots. That might be more realistic.

There are less than 300 players in the hall total.

Here are the last 10 defenders inducted:

Pronger
Lidstrom
Housley
Blake
Niedermayer
Chelios
Howe
Leetch
Stevens
Macinnis

Short of winning Norris triphies for the next 4 years in a row Giordano is not even close to that group. Not even close.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I’m excited to see how Bennett does in December. He has 4 points in his last 5, so let’s hope he can finish out the year strong!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

There are less than 300 players in the hall total.

Here are the last 10 defenders inducted:

Pronger
Lidstrom
Housley
Blake
Niedermayer
Chelios
Howe
Leetch
Stevens
Macinnis

Short of winning Norris triphies for the next 4 years in a row Giordano is not even close to that group. Not even close.

I will say Gio's numbers will end up as good as Savard and Lapointe, but they got the benefit of multiple Cups, and a way different era for defenceman not named Orr.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think you are vastly overrating these players. They are definitely great and could end up amongst the best Flames of all time, but they are certainly not in the HOF conversation.

You may be right. Currently I’ll leave the conversation at Gaudreau and Gio having any shot at all, even if they are long shots. That might be more realistic.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I will say Gio's numbers will end up as good as Savard and Lapointe, but they got the benefit of multiple Cups, and a way different era for defenceman not named Orr.

As great as he has been for us. I think the very thing that is allowing him to be so effective for us into his 30s is the same thing that will keep him out of the hall... He hasn't played for enough seasons.

However, a couple first team all-star selections and a norris or two would likely change that because achieving those things at an older age when the game is getting younger would probably make for a strong case.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

As great as he has been for us. I think the very thing that is allowing him to be so effective for us into his 30s is the same thing that will keep him out of the hall... He hasn't played for enough seasons.

However, a couple first team all-star selections and a norris or two would likely change that because achieving those things at an older age when the game is getting younger would probably make for a strong case.

I think this year might be his best chance for a Norris. A seemingly off year for Karlsson and Doughty, and Hedman, who I think is going to own the award soon, along with Dahlin. I think by the end of the year he is fighting it out with Burns and Carlson. Chabot and Reilly have ridiculous shooting percentages that can't keep going.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

At that time, most of those players were in the prime of their careers, considerably older than our current core.

Best current matches with your list (player I expect to eventually turn out to be superior in bold, taking into account the differential in league scoring in the two different eras):

Gaudreau-Loob
Monahan-Niewendyk
Lindholm-Mullen (40 is the new 50, better all-around game)
Tkachuk-Gilmour
Bennett-Roberts
Jankowski-Otto
Neal-McDonald
Giordano-Macinnis (for the shot alone)
Valimaki-Suter
Backlund-Fleury (less offensive flash and grit but elite defensive capability)

Overall, a I would give the advantage to the Stanley Cup winners, at least among the marquee players, but I believe that the 2nd and 3rd D pairings of the current Flames roster will surpass their counterparts on that team (of course, the goaltending is another story and yet to be determined). And I am predicting that if the current Flames win a Cup, then Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Gio will all be enshrined in the HOF. And who knows whether any of our promising young D will eventually make that list.

I do agree with you, if Bennett turns out to be anywhere near the player Roberts was, then this team will be great, and IMO will win a Cup or two.

I think Lindholm and Nieuwendyk are closer in skillset.

Tkachuk is much more like Roberts than Bennett is.

I don't see anyone on the present Flames even close to Otto

and Fleury and Backlund? no way, total opposites in character and what they did on the ice. I don't think Fleury was ever used to shut down top lines.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by redforever

I think Lindholm and Nieuwendyk are closer in skillset.

Tkachuk is much more like Roberts than Bennett is.

I don't see anyone on the present Flames even close to Otto

and Fleury and Backlund? no way, total opposites in character and what they did on the ice. I don't think Fleury was ever used to shut down top lines.

1989 Calgary didn't worry much about shutting down top lines on the other team. I guess Otto was used to shut down Messier, and Mullen, Gilmour and Patterson would just outplay the top line on most teams. That freed up Newy, Loob and the rest.

Fleury was Tkachuk-like in dickishness, maybe. But Gaudreau-like in size, elusiveness and sheer skill. He was just starting out that year so impact wise, it's no contest. Gaudreau wins.

I'd love Jankowski to be Otto. Love Andersson to be MacInnis and Valimaki to be Suter. Hanifin can be Macoun, making Hamonic Macrimmon or Ramage.

Then you still had Hrdina who was underated.

[Flash Walken]

Good Christ will someone let this thread die already?

it's a homerism wading pool.

[FireFly]

Found it hilarious that this article has a picture of Sam in it...


https://getpocket.com/explore/item/r...ing-1601106883


You think he can do pull ups yet? I haven't followed along.

[Vinny01]

I have always been a huge Sam Bennett fan. I remember cheering loudly when the Oilers passed on him and he fell to us in 2014. I believed that he would bounce back under Peters and Gulutzan was the problem.

I just don’t know anymore. He has been given a glorious chance this year and he is just not living up to even the modest reset expectations of being a second line 20g-40pt pest. I can definitely seeing the team and player parting ways this year but I still think Sam will turn out to be a good player.

I have always heard Tampa has been interested in him. I wonder if something around Bennett and Johnson could be worked out? Tampa frees some cap space and the Flames add a 2/3 center that plus well on both sides of the puck (huge for trying to get Neal going)

[Iceman90]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

Is there a middle ground? Can he be a good part of our team without being awesome?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Good Christ will someone let this thread die already?

it's a homerism wading pool.

Yeah that's what this has been. 114 pages of homerism, no negativity at all.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Iceman90

Is there a middle ground? Can he be a good part of our team without being awesome?

Don't blame me, this thread should've died after it became near unanimous that the flames held on too long.

Some mod changed the title so it could become the de facto Sam Bennett thread.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that's what this has been. 114 pages of homerism, no negativity at all.

Are we still counting posts as goals for Bennett and putting empty net goals as an asterisk for frolik?

Asking for a friend.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are we still counting posts as goals for Bennett and putting empty net goals as an asterisk for frolik?

Asking for a friend.

Your friend lives prominently between your ears, only comes out to call 114 pages of back and forth discussion homerism.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Your friend lives prominently between your ears, only comes out to call 114 pages of back and forth discussion homerism.

Follow along here bingo.

This thread should've been dead, but you bumped it to post some Bennett stats, then it devolved to the point of suggesting this current fpqmes team had 4 hall of famers on it.

That's the homerism.

If you let a thread get long enough you can make it about anything you want.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Follow along here bingo.

This thread should've been dead, but you bumped it to post some Bennett stats, then it devolved to the point of suggesting this current fpqmes team had 4 hall of famers on it.

That's the homerism.

If you let a thread get long enough you can make it about anything you want.

Follow along? Give it a rest man.

I don't need a lesson in how to follow. I can easily go through the topic and find many examples of negativity, and baiting and you know it.

It's a long drawn out topic, I know that, ... I'm the one that suggested we need more topics and less monster threads a month back.

But to label a discussion that calls a player a bust, that they should have already traded him, and they should cut their losses and move him as homerism is seriously missing the definition of the word.

I think it boils down to you assuming anyone not agreeing with you must be a homer. Not a good stance.