Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Disagree, Frolik has always been a complimentary top 6 player and is now trending down to being a good 3rd line player. You need more than what you can get out of current Frolik for the top 6. For me the Mendoza line is pretty well .5 ppg for a top six position. Frolik was that for a long time, pretty well an ideal guy for rounding out the top 6. Hopefully Bennett gets to that point.

Ideally for sure ...

as I said though, the NHL on average isn't that productive. 33 points last year made you the sixth best forward on the worst team. But your point stands it would be great if Bennett started to finish his chances and pushed to a 35-40 point season.

But if he doesn't he's still the best fit I've seen on that second line with Backlund/Tkachuk in his present state.

[GranteedEV]

Bennett is capable of going on a scoring streak. His biggest problem is that when his confidence is gone you can almost see him kicking himself. When his confidence is there - and the player I saw past night was an example of his confidence being there...

November 2015 - 8 pts in 12 games (first/second lines)
January 2016 - 8 goals in 11 games (second/third lines)
February 2016 - 9pts in 14 games (second/third lines)
October 2016 - 6pts in 10 games (third line)
December 2016 - 6 pts in 13 games (third line)
November 2017 - 6 pts in 13 games (third line, no PP)
December 2017 - 10pts in 14 games (third line, one PP pt)

In his rookie season as a 19yo Sam Bennett had 8 PP points in 77 games.
In 163 games under Glen Gulutzan Bennett had 7 PP points.

The opportunity he is getting right now is by far the best of his career since his rookie season. And I would wager Tkachuk is a better linemate than Frolik, that Bennett's 200 foot game is much improved, and that our second and third defense pairs are far less likely to get hemmed in their own zone and cost the forwards offensively.

I will be surprised if Bennett doesn't pass his rookie season totals, even though Peters started him off on the fourth line and he's had a handful of goal contributions not show up on the stat sheet - he's about to go streaking.

[TOfan]

On a good team, Frolik should be slotted on a third line in a shut down role who can play up when necessary & im sure this is what Treliving anticipated when he signed the player. Frolik has brought to th Flames what they should have reasonably expected.

Bennett, on the other hand, was thought to be pretty close to as sure as you could expect to be an impact top 2 center. It was not uncommon to find people, fans and hockey journalist/bloggers/scouts commenting on how long it would take him to surpass Monahan. Backlund wasn't projectd to be the second line center.

I'm glad to see Nennett has found a role and is making solid contributions to the team. Sure would be nice to see him bury a few more/get a bounce or two go his way. A Gordie Howe hat trick would have been epic last night.

[Enoch Root]

Despite his troubles, Bennett has shown - consistently - that he shows up in the playoffs. Last night was a playoff game. And Bennett was one of their best forwards. And was an emotional and physical leader.

Again.

[The Fonz]

His ceiling seems to be trending toward a 25-25 pitbull on the 2nd line wing, which isn’t what was hoped for at the draft, but is absolutely a player that wins games and can shine in the playoffs.

He’d be a huge piece for this team if that’s where he ends up in a couple of years.

[monkeyman]

Bennett is going to be fine, he's still growing, but you can see him becoming more and more comfortable with who he is and they type of game he has to play. The points will come, just be patient and enjoy what he's giving us now. It's exactly the type of thinking that he has to immediately do what he's doing and produce points that will hold him back. Patience and opportunity are the keys to long term success.

[Badgers Nose]

I’m impressed with his strength. His post season routine last year must have been monstrous. Nurse bounced off him once last night when it seemed a big hit was coming.

He plays bigger than his size.

Also, during the late game Tkatchuk Lucic scrum it sure looked like he was smiling when he barged into the middle of that imbroglio.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

His ceiling seems to be trending toward a 25-25 pitbull on the 2nd line wing, which isn’t what was hoped for at the draft, but is absolutely a player that wins games and can shine in the playoffs.

He’d be a huge piece for this team if that’s where he ends up in a couple of years.

I would say 25-25 is pretty optimistic at this point. 20-20 might be too much to expect.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I would say 25-25 is pretty optimistic at this point. 20-20 might be too much to expect.

I think it’s a pretty fair ceiling if he’s playing on the 2nd line.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ideally for sure ...

as I said though, the NHL on average isn't that productive. 33 points last year made you the sixth best forward on the worst team. But your point stands it would be great if Bennett started to finish his chances and pushed to a 35-40 point season.

But if he doesn't he's still the best fit I've seen on that second line with Backlund/Tkachuk in his present state.

Why is it that suggesting a guy on a trend for 8 goals and less than 20 points is more like Hathaway, is hyperbole, but suggesting that if he "just finishes" he's a 35-40 point player is not? That type of production would see a 50% increase in his production from last season, be a career high, and a dramatic improvement over his trend. Seems that prediction is more hyperbolic.


Bennett needs to start scoring or he will be moved off the second line. Its as simple as that. You can't give a guy premium ice time, power play time, and opportunities to score, and watch as that player doesn't produce. A second line player needs to score. All the heart, hustle, and banging don't mean much if the line can't convert and score goals. If Bennett can't produce, you have to give other players an opportunity to finish. You have to try and get a proven guy like James Neal going as well.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why is it that suggesting a guy on a trend for 8 goals and less than 20 points is more like Hathaway, is hyperbole, but suggesting that if he "just finishes" he's a 35-40 point player is not? That type of production would see a 50% increase in his production from last season, be a career high, and a dramatic improvement over his trend. Seems that prediction is more hyperbolic.


Bennett needs to start scoring or he will be moved off the second line. Its as simple as that. You can't give a guy premium ice time, power play time, and opportunities to score, and watch as that player doesn't produce. A second line player needs to score. All the heart, hustle, and banging don't mean much if the line can't convert and score goals. If Bennett can't produce, you have to give other players an opportunity to finish. You have to try and get a proven guy like James Neal going as well.

agreed. If Bennett can't start to contribute offensive and the coaching staff leaves him on the 2nd line, that's a page out of GG's book.

I don't see that happening with this staff though. Neal/Czarnik/Frolik will get there shot of Bennett can't seize the opportunity.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why is it that suggesting a guy on a trend for 8 goals and less than 20 points is more like Hathaway, is hyperbole, but suggesting that if he "just finishes" he's a 35-40 point player is not? That type of production would see a 50% increase in his production from last season, be a career high, and a dramatic improvement over his trend. Seems that prediction is more hyperbolic.


Bennett needs to start scoring or he will be moved off the second line. Its as simple as that. You can't give a guy premium ice time, power play time, and opportunities to score, and watch as that player doesn't produce. A second line player needs to score. All the heart, hustle, and banging don't mean much if the line can't convert and score goals. If Bennett can't produce, you have to give other players an opportunity to finish. You have to try and get a proven guy like James Neal going as well.

First off ... never said he'd be a 35 or 40 point player so yeah ... your comparison was hyperbolic.

But who replaces him then? He had 4 points in 17 games and was promoted to the second line, so clearly you're wrong in this case right? He was given the premium ice time and moved up to the second line despite not producing. The proof is kind of in the now at this point.

They tried Neal there first and it didn't work. With Bennett it's working.

This isn't a hard working replacement player on a second line. The player is creating all kinds of chances, which isn't scoring, but it certainly at least holds more promise for improvement than playing a plug in that spot.

[Beninho]

As a big Bennett critic the past 2 years I must say he’s been everywhere this season. He’s not scoring but it doesn’t matter. He’s passing the eye test every night and looks to be adding confidence in his ability to carry the pack through the neutral zone. He made a couple excellent neutral zone plays last night and his strength along the walls has improved leaps and bounds compared to last season. He doesn’t fall over nearly as much and is much harder to push off the puck. Playing with Tkachuk will also continue to help his game. Oh and he’s got big balls

[Erick Estrada]

I like Bennet on Backlund's line because while Backlund is good at checking opposing teams top forwards, Bennett adds the physical element as you could tell McDavid started fading down the stretch and was intimidated.

[soulchoice]

Sam Bennett is also at that age where he has started to develop adult man strength. Being 21 and all. I certainly hope that Flames continue to let him develop. I can see him putting on another 5-10lbs of muscle in the next year or two. I want this kid to succeed.

Just start working on your shot!!!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Bennett is capable of going on a scoring streak. His biggest problem is that when his confidence is gone you can almost see him kicking himself. When his confidence is there - and the player I saw past night was an example of his confidence being there...

November 2015 - 8 pts in 12 games (first/second lines)
January 2016 - 8 goals in 11 games (second/third lines)
February 2016 - 9pts in 14 games (second/third lines)
October 2016 - 6pts in 10 games (third line)
December 2016 - 6 pts in 13 games (third line)
November 2017 - 6 pts in 13 games (third line, no PP)
December 2017 - 10pts in 14 games (third line, one PP pt)

In his rookie season as a 19yo Sam Bennett had 8 PP points in 77 games.
In 163 games under Glen Gulutzan Bennett had 7 PP points.

The opportunity he is getting right now is by far the best of his career since his rookie season. And I would wager Tkachuk is a better linemate than Frolik, that Bennett's 200 foot game is much improved, and that our second and third defense pairs are far less likely to get hemmed in their own zone and cost the forwards offensively.

I will be surprised if Bennett doesn't pass his rookie season totals, even though Peters started him off on the fourth line and he's had a handful of goal contributions not show up on the stat sheet - he's about to go streaking.

So I guess what you're saying is, I should pick him up?

[Flamenspiel]

I think Bennet is fully on his way towards a kind of Dustin Brown type trajectory and his yearly totals are not that far off. There was a time when everyone in the NHL wanted Brown. I am not sure how relevant goals are in the short term as an indicator of value, look at Chaisson who has 8 goals right now, who on earth would trade for him?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I think it’s a pretty fair ceiling if he’s playing on the 2nd line.

A 25 goal, 50 point player is a very generous ceiling for Bennett at this point, imo.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by New Era

Why is it that suggesting a guy on a trend for 8 goals and less than 20 points is more like Hathaway, is hyperbole, but suggesting that if he "just finishes" he's a 35-40 point player is not? That type of production would see a 50% increase in his production from last season, be a career high, and a dramatic improvement over his trend. Seems that prediction is more hyperbolic.


Bennett needs to start scoring or he will be moved off the second line. Its as simple as that. You can't give a guy premium ice time, power play time, and opportunities to score, and watch as that player doesn't produce. A second line player needs to score. All the heart, hustle, and banging don't mean much if the line can't convert and score goals. If Bennett can't produce, you have to give other players an opportunity to finish. You have to try and get a proven guy like James Neal going as well.

Last night he had a point.

One up on that ^ post.

[AustinL_NHL]

The value Bennett has brought to the team this year is off the charts. It's absolutely incredible how insanely under-appreciated he is by some Flames fans.

He's been dominant in basically every aspect of the game this season and while I know some will quickly be like "points...points...points! If he's so good where are his points?!" and to that I say they're gonna come especially if he plays with Tkachuk and Backlund the rest of the season.

Even if he ends up a 30-40 point player (he's definitely capable of more), he'll still be an incredibly valuable player to this team with the complete game he brings.

He's basically a better skating, less offensively gifted version of Tkachuk and the thought of them pairing up for the next decade (of course I know that is 99% unlikely) makes me salivate