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Old 12-15-2019, 05:16 PM   #201
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Not bad looking. The charging port on the front is weird.



Not really thinking much about fender bender situations, but more like after driving in the summer through a fog of mosquitoes and other insects how gross it will get.
No bugs get on the backside of the front fender. Also, I think the front is the best spot for home charging in your garage.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:47 PM   #202
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No bugs get on the backside of the front fender. Also, I think the front is the best spot for home charging in your garage.

Are we looking at the same model? The one I saw showed the charging port basically on the front grill area.

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Old 12-16-2019, 08:37 AM   #203
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Are we looking at the same model? The one I saw showed the charging port basically on the front grill area.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at the Honda Clarity. I'll try to keep up.

Yeah, that plug-in door on the grill of the KIA would be a gross mess in the summer hah.
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Old 12-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #204
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Oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at the Honda Clarity. I'll try to keep up.

Yeah, that plug-in door on the grill of the KIA would be a gross mess in the summer hah.
The Canadian model appears to have moved it above the drivers side fender.

https://www.kia.ca/nirophev
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Old 12-21-2019, 02:11 PM   #205
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The Canadian model appears to have moved it above the drivers side fender.



https://www.kia.ca/nirophev

There seems to be a difference between the EV and the PHEV plug locations looking at the model line up.

https://www.kia.ca/vehicles/niroev/overview
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Old 12-21-2019, 02:12 PM   #206
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No ####. But land, copper, stations, and a tie in to the grid to the tune of MW power doesn't come free . You think that's a good investment opportunity, and if so at what fee.....20-30 spots at $2-5/hr? I guess we can count on you guys to step up and build these seemingly cost neutral endeavors. EV supporters in here talking about home charging like its going to wipe out or negate roadside charging, when you have THOUSANDS of cars going down the highway, more than a few need to stop for fuel....tying up 20-30 spots for 30min-1hr is just inefficient. You want more than that, well I think the math was done already to what the load would be like, good luck finding the supply
Can I save this post?

Because I want to come back in a few years and tell you have completely frickin' wrong you were.
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:21 PM   #207
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Can I save this post?



Because I want to come back in a few years and tell you have completely frickin' wrong you were.
Ok
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:10 PM   #208
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Can I save this post?



Because I want to come back in a few years and tell you have completely frickin' wrong you were.


I don’t think he’s wrong here. What does the business model for an EV charging station look like? How does somebody make that into a profitable business? It’s not like the gig economy where you let somebody use your spare outlet outside to charge up.
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:50 PM   #209
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I don’t think he’s wrong here. What does the business model for an EV charging station look like? How does somebody make that into a profitable business? It’s not like the gig economy where you let somebody use your spare outlet outside to charge up.
I'm curious how the fluctuating rate of electricity would be handled too, at least with a tank by tank basis you can charge per L to cover what you paid plus your margin (ideally this would work for entire storage tanks but we know everyone does a keeping up with the Jones' pricing).
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:08 PM   #210
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I'm curious how the fluctuating rate of electricity would be handled too, at least with a tank by tank basis you can charge per L to cover what you paid plus your margin (ideally this would work for entire storage tanks but we know everyone does a keeping up with the Jones' pricing).
Why would it have to be any different than how you buy power or gasoline today?

There isn't really a third option.
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:28 PM   #211
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More time someone spends at a business, the more they are likely to spend. I bet we see some really cool EV charging stations in the future full of ways to drain your wallet.

I’d also be willing to bet that by the time there are thousands of ev’s ripping down the highways, there will be even faster charging technologies available.
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Old 12-22-2019, 03:49 PM   #212
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I'm curious how the fluctuating rate of electricity would be handled too, at least with a tank by tank basis you can charge per L to cover what you paid plus your margin (ideally this would work for entire storage tanks but we know everyone does a keeping up with the Jones' pricing).
market-driven pricing?

for example, gas stations in Airdrie typically raise their pump prices 6 cents a litre to catch the "I've got to get to work but my tank is empty" crowd ( after 10 am the price drops to the competitive rates found in Calgary)
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Old 12-22-2019, 05:38 PM   #213
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market-driven pricing?

for example, gas stations in Airdrie typically raise their pump prices 6 cents a litre to catch the "I've got to get to work but my tank is empty" crowd ( after 10 am the price drops to the competitive rates found in Calgary)
Which is fine yes, I indicated that. But electricity is different, you don't buy it and store it in finite amounts. So, how would the fluctuations work, and how quickly would the operator of the charging station be aware of his at meter pricing changes? Would there be a flat rate consumption fee negotiated and would it be competitive? Would there be a surge pricing model adopted? I still haven't really heard an answer on how anyone would deal with the increased demand, again with many power hungry regions already having to endure rolling brownouts, charging EVs at high rates isn't exactly plugging in a bunch of cell phones
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Old 12-22-2019, 06:35 PM   #214
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market-driven pricing?

for example, gas stations in Airdrie typically raise their pump prices 6 cents a litre to catch the "I've got to get to work but my tank is empty" crowd ( after 10 am the price drops to the competitive rates found in Calgary)
That is not market driven pricing. That is price gouging.

We have a gas station in my area in Calgary that routinely marks up the price per litre by 10cents every morning. 10 cents less on the drive home from work.

You find gas stations doing that do us all a favor, never deal with them.

Switching to electric vehicles will not change bad business practices.
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:28 PM   #215
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Which is fine yes, I indicated that. But electricity is different, you don't buy it and store it in finite amounts. So, how would the fluctuations work, and how quickly would the operator of the charging station be aware of his at meter pricing changes? Would there be a flat rate consumption fee negotiated and would it be competitive? Would there be a surge pricing model adopted? I still haven't really heard an answer on how anyone would deal with the increased demand, again with many power hungry regions already having to endure rolling brownouts, charging EVs at high rates isn't exactly plugging in a bunch of cell phones
These things will get figured out and charged to the customer. Right now an oil company engages in natural gas, power, diluent, and pipeline contracts to sell to produce steam to inject into the ground to produce oil to sell to a third party who buys multiple different blends of oil from various places around the world and adds hydrogen and all sorts of other processes to create gasoline which is then shipped via pipeline and truck and sold to stations on a bulk basis weekly or monthly while prices fluctuate daily. And yet everyone in the supply chain makes a profit.

If highway tanks are $40 or $20 per 400km it won’t really matter provided amp hours for highway miles aren’t more costly than current gasoline it won’t factor into people’s purchase decisions given most charging will be done at home or work.
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:34 PM   #216
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,again with many power hungry regions already having to endure rolling brownouts
Lol what? There is nowhere in North America that has rolling brownouts.
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:21 PM   #217
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Lol what? There is nowhere in North America that has rolling brownouts.


A little old from NY, but not much has changed.

https://observer.com/2015/07/how-hot-is-it/

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The mayor, Emergency Management Commissioner Joseph Esposito and Health Commissioner Dr. Mary Bassett urged New Yorkers to set their air conditioners to 78 degrees today—promising it’d be cool enough to keep people safe as temperatures soar above 90 degrees, while at the same time not overwhelming electrical grids and plunging the city into blackouts or brownouts.

“We have a thousand outages already. Is that gonna get worse? We’ll see as the day goes on,” Mr. Esposito told reporters today during a City Hall briefing on the potentially deadly heat.
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:50 PM   #218
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That's not a rolling brownout.
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:55 PM   #219
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That's not a rolling brownout.


Ah, I misunderstood that terminology.

Interesting definition though from the urban dictionary though, but I will not elaborate on that.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:19 AM   #220
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Giant thread at one of the largest Tesla fan forums about this issue, though this was a sudden drop and theorized that Tesla discovered degradation issues that it hadn't accounted before, requiring it to cap the maximum voltage of the cells for its own protection:


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ftware.154976/


Hand-in-hand with capacity degradation is a reduction in maximum charging speeds, which impacts the ability of the car for long-distance travel (as well as directly adding to congestion at these high-power DC charging stations).


The posting actually states that this is artificial capping by Tesla to protect the integrity of the battery pack, and that it is a software setting. But this is a known issue with lithium ion batteries, even for products not used in cars. The fact that Tesla does this software adjustment is interesting. I wonder if, since this is software related, if this can be removed to just achieve the full charge capacity of the pack? I'm sure Tesla does this for a reason, just like car manufacturers put mechanical and software restrictions on certain functions in their cars as well.

It should also be noted that combustion engines suffer a similar degradation over time. Parts in engines rub together, even with proper lubrication, and this causes compression loss, which requires more fuel/air to complete the combustion cycle. It is part and parcel of the the aging process of the combustion engine and one of the reasons why engine rebuilds take place and why certain parts are replaced at certain points of a car's life (bushings, valves, rings, bearings, etc).

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This is after 216,000 miles. Or 350,000km. How many problems would a gas vehicle have had by then?
Yes, accord's post was disingenuous by making it seem like degradation is something that only happens to EVs. The combustion engine requires significantly more maintenance and replacement of parts than an EV. That is one of the reasons why the manufacturers bump the price of the EV, as they will not get the back end service costs, where the real money is. Consider the range of the vehicle being discussed, lets look at the schedule to replace parts on the average car.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...commendations/

So by 120,000 you're replacing spark plugs multiple times. You're also replacing your timing chain, decoupler pulleys, O/2 sensors, fluids multiple times, filters multiple times, replaced your shocks and struts, like have had to deal with CV and boot issues, and had to consider doing something with the combustion chamber. Not a simple as the electric motor.

Getting beyond that 200,000 mile range and the maintenance and mechanical failures continue to mount. You're swapping out many parts in the combustion engine to keep it running, and that's if you're a good owner and follow the maintenance schedule as outlined by the manufacturer.

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Probably not that many, given the high reliability and long life-span of modern cars.

And the thing I would least expect to degrade is the fill rate of the fuel tank. Unlike David99 who in recent months have seen further degradation in his battery:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4274798/
This is no different than any vehicle aging. Your engine will not get the same optimum fuel economy over the lifetime of the vehicle. That is caused by wear and tear, and fuel economy heads south over time. So you are filling up more often the longer you own the vehicle. The tank doesn't get smaller, but your range drops because your fuel economy drops. With the EV, the range degrades as the battery pack deteriorates. With that comes a decrease in range. Similar base problem, but for different reasons.
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