Nenshi's Win Heard Around the World

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by NiklasSundblad

Calgary can't outsource garbage collection to India to cut costs.

Nope. But we could have allowed competitive bids from the private sector when we started blue-bin recycling. What's the harm in that? If the private bids are higher than it costs for the city to do it using unionized city workers, you still have that option. If it ends up being way cheaper for the same service, then we'd do that.

Michael

[NiklasSundblad]

^^I agree, though it's sort of beside the point of my argument. I chose a poor example.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Nope. But we could have allowed competitive bids from the private sector when we started blue-bin recycling. What's the harm in that? If the private bids are higher than it costs for the city to do it using unionized city workers, you still have that option. If it ends up being way cheaper for the same service, then we'd do that.

Michael

You do know the blue bin recycling in Calgary is run by a private company......

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Ducay

You do know the blue bin recycling in Calgary is run by a private company......

It's run by the City of Calgary. It is sorted at a private facility.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Naheed Nenshi

“When you’re 38 years old and single and this darn good looking, people do ask that question to themselves. No one has the guts to ask me directly,” Nenshi said after the Star asked him whether he was gay and whether it matters. “I would love to have this appear in print. For the record, the answer is no if people care and no it doesn’t matter. This election has proven these sort of things don’t matter. People want to know my ideas.”

Toronto Star

[Madman]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Toronto Star

Saw him walking back from McDougall Centre this morning, (we were across the street), so we gave him a friendly cheer - he responded quite nicely and gave us a very.......umm, "polite" wave.

[Ducay]

Wait, he's Tanzanian by origin? Well that just happens to be right beside Kenya (Obama). Coincidence I think not!




(also I could have sworn he was Indian though, his family looks straight out of Delhi)

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by NiklasSundblad

Just like to throw it out there that a municipality is a non-profit corporation. That was one of the most attractive things about Nenshi to me.

Left-right issues are almost completely irrelevant in city governance. Nenshi has business experience. However, running a city that delivers services to tax payers, and running a business that sells good/services to customers for a profit, or increasing share value are different things. Non Profits have a lot more in common with city governments than businesses do when it comes to budgeting and finances.

Calgary can't outsource garbage collection to India to cut costs.

There a lot of things even a non-profit corporation such as the city can learn from for-profit businesses in finances. Processes that businesses use come to mind. Things like project cost controls and reductions, process improvement methods and merit based employee compensation would be immediately useful in controlling the costs for that new interchange, how not to make the mistakes with this interchange that we made with the last, etc.

[Clarkey]

I admit I ruled him out initially with little to know knowledge classifying him as an 'artsy fartsy academic out of touch with reality'. I ended up voting for him but am cautiously optimistic.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Muta

Possibly, but for the most part it's a way for a government to address immediate infrastructure projects with no (or little) upfront costs. Infrastructure Ontario is pretty much only doing P3's these days, and I don't think they would be doing them if they were losing money. I've worked on three P3 projects there already this year.

I got it wrong, it wasn't other provinces. It was Australia and New Zealand that were having P3 disasters a few years back. They released a report on this.

A common problem with PPP projects is that private investors obtained a rate of return that was higher than the government’s bond rate, even though most or all of the income risk associated with the project was borne by the public sector.
In 2009, the Treasury of New Zealand, in response to inquiries by the new National Party government, released a report on PPP schemes that concluded that "there is little reliable empirical evidence about the costs and benefits of PPPs" and that there "are other ways of obtaining private sector finance", as well as that "the advantages of PPPs must be weighed against the contractural complexities and rigidities they entail"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public%...te_partnership

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ducay

(also I could have sworn he was Indian though, his family looks straight out of Delhi)

Indo immigration throughout Africa has gone on for centuries. Politically, East Africa in the 70's and beyond in particular was a time where folks of that ethnicity barely escaped with their lives abandoning whatever they owned previously.

They are excellent Canadians. They exemplify what this country is all about.

[yads]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Klein is Jewish

What are you basing this on? The name isn't specifically Jewish.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by NiklasSundblad

^^I agree, though it's sort of beside the point of my argument. I chose a poor example.

Really? It seems to me that many city services could be delivered by the private sector if it was cost effective to do so. Pools/arenas could be owned by the city but operated on a stipend by private operators, snow plowing could be hired out to construction/landscaping companies (many of which already own the equipment), bus services could be provided on a bid basis by companies like Southland, which is how that service is delivered in London. And the Alberta gov't has proven that registry-type service (dog-licensing, business licensing) can be provided effectively by private businesses. I bet the existing registries would LOVE to have another income stream, and the city could set the reimbursement lower than it costs them to provide the service.

I'm not saying the city should do all these things, because in some of these cases its probably cheaper/better to provide the service in house. (I wouldn't suggest privatising police/fire, or property tax assessments, for example) But it's intellectually dishonest to not look at whether better options exist.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Ducay

You do know the blue bin recycling in Calgary is run by a private company......

The trucks are operated by unionized city employees, even though existing private recycling companies begged for the chance to bid on the contract, as it devastated their businesses.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Wait, he's Tanzanian by origin? Well that just happens to be right beside Kenya (Obama). Coincidence I think not!

Time for Fox News/Conspiracy Theorists to get to work!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The trucks are operated by unionized city employees, even though existing private recycling companies begged for the chance to bid on the contract, as it devastated their businesses.

Right, but the companies all wanted to work alone and none of them had anywhere near the capacity to serve the entire city. As I understood this they all wanted to keep operating their own small businesses, and didn't want to all work together.

Frankly to get the recycling program to take place meant that there was no business that could've done this privately, end of story.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right, but the companies all wanted to work alone and none of them had anywhere near the capacity to serve the entire city. As I understood this they all wanted to keep operating their own small businesses, and didn't want to all work together.

Frankly to get the recycling program to take place meant that there was no business that could've done this privately, end of story.

I'm not privvy to the details of the negotiations, but it seems to me like the city could have split it up into 4 quadrants or whatever, and let them bid on smaller pieces. Its good to have more than one service provider anyway, because then you get competition at contract renewal time. Could have also had the city do the service in some areas if they were the best option.

Maybe they did this, and if so I have no issue with it whatsoever. If the city employees are the cheapest/best option, then great!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm not privvy to the details of the negotiations, but it seems to me like the city could have split it up into 4 quadrants or whatever, and let them bid on smaller pieces. Its good to have more than one service provider anyway, because then you get competition at contract renewal time. Could have also had the city do the service in some areas if they were the best option.

Maybe they did this, and if so I have no issue with it whatsoever. If the city employees are the cheapest/best option, then great!

I had a private provider before the current system. For a wide range of reasons there is no way it could've been provided by the private sector. One being that if my quadrant had private sector service and I still had to sort everything while the others got the blue bins I would be totally choked! There are many reasons though, and that is one small one.

Bottom line is that the private businesses were not going to be able to meet the service standards that were necessary to serve the entire city of single family dwellings.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

There a lot of things even a non-profit corporation such as the city can learn from for-profit businesses in finances. Processes that businesses use come to mind. Things like project cost controls and reductions, process improvement methods and merit based employee compensation would be immediately useful in controlling the costs for that new interchange, how not to make the mistakes with this interchange that we made with the last, etc.

I'm curious if you have any specific non-profits in mind. I happen to work for the largest arts organization (by budget) in the province, and all these practices you mention have been a vital part in the financial health of that organization for years.

I think my point is that there are certain measures that for-profit businesses can take increase the black side of the balance sheet, that are completely unavailable to non-profits, such as a municipality.

I think there is no reason to doubt that things like cost controls, and budgeting are areas that fall well within in realm of the experience and expertise Nenshi has garnered prior to even considering a run for mayor. His proposal for snow removal (podcast no 4, @ about 1'30")
should settle the worries of most people who are worried the elected a raging communist.

[Flames0910]

I'm curious if you have any specific non-profits in mind. I happen to work for the largest arts organization (by budget) in the province, and all these practices you mention have been a vital part in the financial health of that organization for years.

I'm too lazy to research and you've all but named it. Wanna help me out?

(just curious)