Nenshi's Win Heard Around the World

[kirant]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

See, that's one of the big knocks on why I didn't vote McIvor, because he's too comfortable with how the city works. I want new blood in there that hasn't been tainted by the old process.

Call me pessimistic, but it is my firm belief that ALL politicians are corrupt, and that they all receive benefits under the table, to varying degrees. The difference is who is less corrupt and won't go overboard with all the cash under the table. To me, McIvor seems like a prime guy already set up to take over the gravy train after Bronco leaves.

So in a way, I'm glad it's an academic sitting in the mayor's chair rather than a greasy politician that's been in council for so many years. Time will tell if Nenshi will do a good joob or not, but I'm willing to give him a chance.

I guess I should state out front - I supported McIver. However, I'll give Nenshi a chance. I think he has the ability and drive to really surprise people like me.

Anyways, if you're the pessimist, I'm the optimist. Maybe it's just because I didn't follow elections as closely when I couldn't vote, but I think not every politician is completely corrupt. It's not like you can exactly get very rich out of the living. It's a lot of hours to put in a week. Even if you do up your income with a lot of under the table deals, you're just 1 screw up away from losing your job come next election. That being said, everybody has their selling price, and I would assume that McIver's comes a little lower than Nenshi's would, though both are outside the range that any company would probably pay.

My main problem during the election though was the amount of practical experience that Nenshi has. Even if he has the best ideas in the world, it doesn't help if he can't implement them. The amount of debate, bureaucracy and stringing of red tape is pretty bad and I'm not sure Nenshi can handle it all, while getting his (possibly, I haven't seen them in practice) great ideas through effectively, or (in the worst case scenario) if they even work in practice.

[MarchHare]

There is a big difference between being able to talk about theories and strategies, and being able to implement them effectively, while maintaining positive relationships with the various bureaucrats in the city. McIver may not have been flashy, but he sure had working knowledge of how this city functions.

Apologies in advance if this comes off sounding snarky, but what exactly were some policies that were successfully implemented by McIver during his tenure as an alderman? Admittedly I didn't follow his entire career, but my impression of him isn't that he was a leader on council who got things done but rather an ineffective grandstander who opposed pretty much everything.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

And my issue isn't that he doesn't have an impressive resume, he does. My concern is with the practical experience, how he will deal with the bureaucracy and red tape that McIver has dealt with for 20 years.

There is a big difference between being able to talk about theories and strategies, and being able to implement them effectively, while maintaining positive relationships with the various bureaucrats in the city. McIver may not have been flashy, but he sure had working knowledge of how this city functions.

I'm curious what makes you think that McIver, with his 9 years of experience, would be able to maintain a single positive relationship within city hall. He's been nothing but a disturber and a divisive voice on council since he joined it. That's the biggest reason I didn't want to see him in the mayor's office.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Apologies in advance if this comes off sounding snarky, but what exactly were some policies that were successfully implemented by McIver during his tenure as an alderman? Admittedly I didn't follow his entire career, but my impression of him isn't that he was a leader on council who got things done but rather an ineffective grandstander who opposed pretty much everything.

Good question, and I don't know that answer. My point was more that he knows the system, the people and the red tape that will have to be cut to get it done.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by kermitology

I'm curious what makes you think that McIver, with his 9 years of experience, would be able to maintain a single positive relationship within city hall. He's been nothing but a disturber and a divisive voice on council since he joined it. That's the biggest reason I didn't want to see him in the mayor's office.

And evidently lots of people felt the same way. My argument is from a practical working knowledge point of view. McIver might have been disturber, but he was a disturber for years and knew how city hall and the rest of the city departments work.

[kermitology]

I'm already starting to be happy with Nenshi as mayor-elect with him knowing that we cannot continue to sign front end agreements with developers for new suburbs. Basically, the city is required to generate the infrastructure to connect to a new site, while the developer is required to build the infrastructure ON the site. The city doesn't have the money to build that infrastructure, so they sign a front end agreement whereby the developer builds the cities responsibility and the city owes them. That debt, while interest free is now upwards of $300M. That's a big problem, and it stems from the rules about who is responsible for what, and Nenshi has identified that as something that needs to change. (I gathered this from Chris Harper tweeting from the luncheon that Nenshi spoke at yesterday at the Canadian Club. He's already got Druh Farrell on his side on that one, likely Carra as well.

People will cry that this puts the burden on the home owner, and as far as I'm concerned it damn well should. Why should every other citizen in Calgary pay for it? They aren't using it. It's logical that the cost goes to the purchaser.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

And evidently lots of people felt the same way. My argument is from a practical working knowledge point of view. McIver might have been disturber, but he was a disturber for years and knew how city hall and the rest of the city departments work.

I'm not sure of that. From what I've seen, McIver's experience as an alderman mostly consisted of voting "No" and then running out of council chambers to give a quote to the nearest Sun reporter. Again, I admit I might be overlooking some important project that he spearheaded, worked with council to make sure it passed, and then collaborated with the City's employees to see it through, but I can't think of any off hand.

[Shazam]

This guy's got even better credentials than Nenshi:



Just sayin'

[kermitology]

^^

DO NOT WANT.

Not at all!

[Shazam]

And there was this guy that was mayor of Calgary for a while:



That has a degree in urban development. How'd that turn out?

[kirant]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not sure of that. From what I've seen, McIver's experience as an alderman mostly consisted of voting "No" and then running out of council chambers to give a quote to the nearest Sun reporter. Again, I admit I might be overlooking some important project that he spearheaded, worked with council to make sure it passed, and then collaborated with the City's employees to see it through, but I can't think of any off hand.

I'm not terribly versed in city politics (mostly what I remember from over 1 year ago was Bronco stating "We need funding" for X, Y, and Z), but IMO, organizing an opposition for bills qualifies as working with council. I know at least one he's managed to stop (or at least, limit the spread of) a tax increase, something that requires the help of at least a majority of the council.

Again, I'm not horribly extremely knowledgable in the are, but being able to mount an opposition in council to stop other projects/bills should help the learning curve on how to pass something of his own in council (not 100% transferable skills, but he already knows how to secure enough votes in council).

[Muta]

Given that Wayne Stewart threw his support behind Nenshi, I wonder if he'll advise him on the introduction of P3 projects here in Alberta (which this province has been traditionally slow to embrace). That is definitely a new route for Nenshi and council to explore, and rightfully they should.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Muta

Given that Wayne Stewart threw his support behind Nenshi, I wonder if he'll advise him on the introduction of P3 projects here in Alberta (which this province has been traditionally slow to embrace). That is definitely a new route for Nenshi and council to explore, and rightfully they should.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember a lot of problems and cost overruns on P3 projects in other provinces. They ended up paying more for less at the end of the day.

[Bunk]

I think it's just worth waiting and seeing with Nenshi. The guy hasn't even been sworn in yet.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember a lot of problems and cost overruns on P3 projects in other provinces. They ended up paying more for less at the end of the day.

Possibly, but for the most part it's a way for a government to address immediate infrastructure projects with no (or little) upfront costs. Infrastructure Ontario is pretty much only doing P3's these days, and I don't think they would be doing them if they were losing money. I've worked on three P3 projects there already this year.

[Mazrim]

P3s in Alberta have been quite successful and that's why you will see more of them as time goes on. In BC there are many examples of successful P3s as well.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by fotze

I want to see how someone with business experience runs what really is, a business.

I have to disagree iwth this - government is NOT business and while leadership skills are useful in both, I don't want the city run like a business. Taxpayers are not customers, the city doesn't need to make a profit, and running city departments to maximize revenue is not a good idea.

Government has a different purpose, ethos, and proper implementation than business. The idea that they are pretty well the same thing is a libertarian theory with no basis in reality; one glaring difference is that business must react to the market while municipal government is only beholden to the voters.

It's rather like a capitalist version of junta rule - the military also has many similarities to government, but that doesn't mean a general is the best one to run your polity, and neither necessarily is a businessman. We seem to overvalue business experience to an extreme degree, as if economics is the sum of life - it is not.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jammies

I have to disagree iwth this - government is NOT business and while leadership skills are useful in both, I don't want the city run like a business. Taxpayers are not customers, the city doesn't need to make a profit, and running city departments to maximize revenue is not a good idea.

^^

To grossly simplify things, the purpose of businesses is to create profits for their owners/shareholders while the purpose of governments is to provide services to citizens. While naturally there will be some cross-over in the skills required to be successful in each field, being a good businessman does not necessarily make someone a good public servant (and vice versa).

[Flames0910]

^ Ur totally right jammies.

However I don't think it would be so terrible if city hall treated people like they were customers paying with hard-earned dollars.

An 18 year old server at Boston freakin' Pizza can manage a "we don't say no" philosophy but well-educated, experienced city workers have no problem making you jump through hoops...something wrong with that imo.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by fotze

I also am not 100% convinced about Nenshi, I was only probably 60/40 for him over Maciver. The public service slant and non-profit slant actually does worry me a little bit. I think he's a little more left than i would normally like.

Just like to throw it out there that a municipality is a non-profit corporation. That was one of the most attractive things about Nenshi to me.

Left-right issues are almost completely irrelevant in city governance. Nenshi has business experience. However, running a city that delivers services to tax payers, and running a business that sells good/services to customers for a profit, or increasing share value are different things. Non Profits have a lot more in common with city governments than businesses do when it comes to budgeting and finances.

Calgary can't outsource garbage collection to India to cut costs.