Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

He was already on 'unrelated leave.'

Man, I need a job where they pay me to stay home. I would love that.

Pretty simple. Look for any career where you can join a union.

[MillerTime GFG]

Conversation about this on my FB feed. I am quite close to someone in the police force, whom I highly respect, and he has some strong words about some of the people coming forward. I will name him Joe, and the person he's talking to I shall name Bob. Here's the conversation:

Joe posts link to the article about the 13 people coming forward about harrassment/bullying with the following comment:

Boo freaking hoo. I can guarantee, without knowing the names, that most or all of these people are #### pumps. They are doing ####ty or no work and getting flak for it. They would have been fired long ago in any private company.

Bob comments:

As a civilian I'm disturbed by your dismissive attitude towards allegations of harassment and bullying. This type of attitude is one of the reasons many people do not trust police officers, and why many women are afraid to (and often don't) report abuse.

Joe:

Well considering I do know some specifics, I can assure you my position is fully justified.

Ever worked for a government agency Bob?


And if you're refering to more of a sexual harrasment aspect of the allegations, I will never defend that. I'm speaking to lazy people getting called out for not doing their share of the workload, and they in turn cry bullying.

Bob:

No, I have not worked for a government agency, but I do find it hard to believe that all 13 people are just lazy and there is no truth behind any of their allegations. I do understand that you may have more insight into the specifics, but from a civilian perspective I would like to see any allegations of harassment taken seriously.

- A couple other people post in-between -

Joe:

I have worked both federal and municipal now. The lazy workers are rampant and your tax dollars are being wasted. The employees are basically unfireable due to strong unions. The only way to get fired is by doing something illegal, and these lazy people know it and exploit it.


People wanting promotions which means going back to shift work for a while since they are now at the bottom of the totem pole for that rank and they have to climb back up. But they don't want to work shift work so they cry discrimination. Well guess what, there's a lineup of people also wanting that promotion that will work shift work.


And Joe I can assure you the sexual allegations did concern me. Now to be clear, I am not in a management position. But I was quite curious so I asked around with female coworkers that I know would be forthcoming with me. None of them supported the allegations of systemic sexual discrimination or bullying.

Also to be clear Bob I don't blame you for your perceptions of it. Dianne Colley-Urquhart has done a fine job of stirring the pot right before the end of her term on the police commision. Weird she didn't bring it to light earlier when she could have taken part in resolution. Instead she held her own secret meetings, then resigned shortly after bringing it to the media. When have the media ever been at a police commision meeting? She's working on her own agenda here.

Definite food for thought from the other side.

[4X4]

I can't believe he said that on facebook. With his real name?

[Coys1882]

I know quite a few police as well and it seems to be the common theme. The lady that recently resigned from the CPS in front of the media had a horrible reputation for laziness and entitlement which had been talked about quite sometime before all the high profile stories.

[TheAlpineOracle]

A lot of the police officers that got hired during the boom cycle, are essentially officers the RCMP or other Municipal jurisdictions didn't want. I know a couple people I went to high school with who couldn't get on locally or with the RCMP who magically appeared on the Edmonton and Calgary polices forces. Sure they have passed the tests, and ticked the right boxes, but let's be honest, they weren't top choice candidates. They were the best of what was left. Are we really surprised this has resulted in some of the issues we are currently seeing?

[REDVAN]

I know some people who have some inside information as well, and yeah there's more to this story (at least the original complainant).

I think "Joe's" attitude is some of the problem, but it is VERY hard to eliminate that sentiment when many of the issues first-responders are facing are "invisible" mental illnesses and stressors. Not everyone gets "broken" by the job, and a lot of the old-school mentality is that you must be weak or something wrong with you if it gets to you.

These people do a very difficult job, and it is too much for some. Are we to throw them away and discard them after years of service? No I don't think that is right. But at the same time, I think people have to be honest with themselves and if it's not a career for them (things can change even after years of service), and they can't fit into the mold of what is required, then the mold doesn't need to change: they need to find a new profession. If there isn't a non-public facing role for you in the force, then you should find something in private industry that suits you better. MANY people do this.

Policing isn't a sales job where you can change your hours to fit your life and there is only a call when you make one. Policing is a constant, stressful job, and it's not for everyone (whether they think it is or not).

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I can't believe he said that on facebook. With his real name?

First off, he's not afraid to share his opinion. Probably wouldn't be opposed to me using his real name on here, but I aired on the side of caution. I think it's important to speak up.

Secondly, I imagine he feels the need to protect the public opinion on the CPS, as they're facing a lot of public scrutiny these days, which does not bode well given the requirements to interact with the public every day.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Policing isn't a sales job where you can change your hours to fit your life and there is only a call when you make one. Policing is a constant, stressful job, and it's not for everyone (whether they think it is or not).

While that is somewhat true (especially compared to other professions), "Joe" actually did recently change his hours (by changing positions) to cater to his family and life.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Secondly, I imagine he feels the need to protect the public opinion on the CPS, as they're facing a lot of public scrutiny these days, which does not bode well given the requirements to interact with the public every day.

This is a big part of it. A lot of folks don't understand how frequently police and citizens in their town interact (or perhaps I have a somewhat unique perspective). For the last 3 years, CPS and the public have interacted a minimum of once per minute (and that number is usually higher...)

And yes, I meant to type minute.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Joe posts link to the article about the 13 people coming forward about harrassment/bullying with the following comment:

...

Definite food for thought from the other side.

The 'other side'?

I represented a CPS officer born in Pakistan. He was routinely called a 'sand n-word' by his superior officer and one day during morning parade meeting the superior pointed his service revolver at my client's head.

When my client filed a formal complaint (because, you know it is 100% criminal to point a gun at someone's head in that scenario), it was dismissed as an incident of 'horseplay' and therefore not requiring discipline. There was no disputing my client found himself staring down the barrel of his boss's gun while in his workplace (it was of course done in front of all of the other shift-mates that morning)...it just didn't make it to the level of anyone in the service being prepared to do anything about it.

My client, now deemed a complainer, was ostracized and pushed out of the service. The superior was promoted and still is there today shaping officers in his command.

There may well be questions to raise about any particular person claiming they are a victim, but it is simply beyond any reasonable dispute that rampant unlawful bullying and harassment has become the cultural norm at CPS.

Two official reports have found it to be so, the current Chief who has worked there for more than 30 years has publicly described it as a decades-long problem, and the current Calgary Police Commission has identified it as its top priority to fulfill its role of civilian oversight of the CPS.

With respect, Joe's credibility is zero when he says:

I can guarantee, without knowing the names, that most or all of these people are #### pumps. They are doing ####ty or no work and getting flak for it.

He can guarantee it even though he doesn't know who the people are? What a fool.

Food for thought...

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Conversation about this on my FB feed. I am quite close to someone in the police force, whom I highly respect.

And you still respect him after those comments?

If his first thought about hearing about unspecified complaints regarding harassment and bullying is to type "Boo ####ing hoo" he's 100% part of the problem with the police force. Regardless of how much merit his other comments have.

[MillerTime GFG]

MBates - remember those are not my words, so there's no need to throw the "food for thought" back at me in a condescending way as it seems you are. It's more to open up the dialogue, for as you can see from other posters in here, it's not just Joe that has voiced these concerns about these people coming forward.

Admittedly Joe does come across as saying all of the complainants are full of you know what, but in his defense, he does say "that most or all of these people are #### pumps."

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And you still respect him after those comments?

If his first thought about hearing about unspecified complaints regarding harassment and bullying is to type "Boo ####ing hoo" he's 100% part of the problem with the police force. Regardless of how much merit his other comments have.

Joe states:

Well considering I do know some specifics, I can assure you my position is fully justified.

I'm giving him the benefit of doubt that he does have some insider information. I think he could make his point a little less aggressively for sure when saying "boo ####ing hoo", but that doesn't discredit everything else he says.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Joe states:

I'm giving him the benefit of doubt that he does have some insider information. I think he could make his point a little less aggressively for sure when saying "boo ####ing hoo", but that doesn't discredit everything else he says.

Probably a good ####ing idea when it's regarding people being harassed at the workplace. Like I said, he's part of the problem if he's going to dismiss and defame anyone who has complained. "Everyone who complained is a #### pump and I'm justified because I said so" Oh great argument Joe.

I never said it discredit everything else he said, it probably has merit when it comes to a couple or more of the complaints, I just said it makes him part of the problem.

It's pretty obvious he could have got his point across without name calling and the fact that he doesn't see the irony in name calling a bunch of complainants who are arguing they are being bullied shows he's not the brightest bulb. Being aggressive and name calling colleagues (no less in a public forum) and then arguing that harassment doesn't exist. Yeah, okay Joe.

[MillerTime GFG]

He doesn't say it doesn't exist, he says he has information leading him to believe that it didn't exist in all or almost all of these cases.

[cam_wmh]

This Joe sounds noble. Do share his name.

[Weitz]

I am shocked that a Cop thinks people speaking out are lazy and Entitled. Shocked.

Curious if he would be willing to share his comments to the complainants and risk the defamation or libel lawsuits? (I am not a lawyer don't know the difference)

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

He doesn't say it doesn't exist, he says he has information leading him to believe that it didn't exist in all or almost all of these cases.

"I can guarantee, without knowing the names,"

He doesn't even know the names, but he can guarantee us that most of these complainants are crybaby #### pumps. Yeah, okay.

Here's an idea that you can get to Joe from me and the public that has half a brain. Let the external investigator that was hired to investigate these complaints do so before you start name calling and defaming the individuals.

Hearing about harassment from multiple current and former police force members and having some cop come out in a public forum like Facebook to instantly dismiss and insult the complaints doesn't do the police force any favour. If anything it goes to show that the harassment exists and complaints haven't been taken serious if Joe is a microcosm of the union.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

He doesn't say it doesn't exist, he says he has information leading him to believe that it didn't exist in all or almost all of these cases.

if he treat those people like he's writing about them, he's likely one of the people who bully.

this comment was hilarious, too.

"And Joe I can assure you the sexual allegations did concern me. Now to be clear, I am not in a management position. But I was quite curious so I asked around with female coworkers that I know would be forthcoming with me. None of them supported the allegations of systemic sexual discrimination or bullying."

like that means anything or make the allegations untrue. so a couple of women he knows says it didn't happen, so it must not have happened to anyone?

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

He doesn't say it doesn't exist, he says he has information leading him to believe that it didn't exist in all or almost all of these cases.

without knowing their names or who they are?