Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://news.health.com/2010/03/22/me...kw=outbrain-ha


Measles Outbreak Triggered by Unvaccinated Child

They should bill the moronic parents who allowed this to happen.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

These are interesting stats from that article.

“There’s definitely a lack of appreciation of measles and what it can do,” said Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center and chief of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

He said that in a recent Indiana outbreak, a 17-year-old girl was infected with measles on a trip to Romania, and when she came home she went to a church picnic attended by about 500 people. Of that group, 35 were unvaccinated. Three people out of 465 vaccinated got measles, while 31 out of the 35 who were unvaccinated contracted the disease, Offit said.

3/465 and 31/35 received nature's vaccination.

[robocop]

I think some of you are being way too hard on the cautious and the skeptic, I will probably vaccinate my kids but name calling and insults really serve no purpose. I for one uphold the right of anyone to be skeptical of any product of government, period.

[photon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

3/465 and 31/35 received nature's vaccination.

Yeah, don't worry if some of those end up as one of the 18 children who die of measles each hour, every hour.

[Nage Waza]

I thought vaccination was the product of science.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I thought vaccination was the product of science.

It's a product of the government! Can't trust the gubment, them and their vaccinations and round earth ideas...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by photon

Yeah, don't worry if some of those end up as one of the 18 children who die of measles each hour, every hour.

Ironic, considering your avatar.

[robocop]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I thought vaccination was the product of science.

the research yes, but the regulatory body, Health Canada, is government run. The idea of the government regulating the vaccination of our population while 100% of the people accept it willingly is not a good thing. Skepticism helps enforce proper protocol, ignorance and apathy does not.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by robocop

I think some of you are being way too hard on the cautious and the skeptic, I will probably vaccinate my kids but name calling and insults really serve no purpose. I for one uphold the right of anyone to be skeptical of any product of government, period.

People who knowingly endanger their children deserve all the criticism one can give.

[robocop]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

People who knowingly endanger their children deserve all the criticism one can give.

why? what purpose does it serve? negative criticism is clearly not going to change anyone's mind here. It does not objectively prove any point or form any argument. The only real purpose I see here is that it makes you feel better when you insult someone.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by robocop

why? what purpose does it serve? negative criticism is clearly not going to change anyone's mind here. It does not objectively prove any point or form any argument. The only real purpose I see here is that it makes you feel better when you insult someone.

1) Objective, empirical information/evidence is given to the "skeptics".
2) "Skeptics" ignore this information, instead citing anecdotal nonsense.
3) The "skeptics" are ridiculed mercilessly. They are the bane of society.

Thus is the way of the world.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by robocop

why? what purpose does it serve? negative criticism is clearly not going to change anyone's mind here. It does not objectively prove any point or form any argument. The only real purpose I see here is that it makes you feel better when you insult someone.

To be honest I actually pity people who are that naive. The whole anti-vaccine argument should have about as much traction as an F1 car on a skating rink. But here we are, and I dont feel the least bit bad if someone who didnt vaccinate their kids feels insulted.

[robocop]

and you don't see the hypocrisy in insulting someone for no other reason to make yourself feel better? If you want someone to see your viewpoint do you really think ridicule is an effective way of portraying a message or maybe presenting a coherent argument with objective information is best. If someone refuses to listen just leave it alone, otherwise you just end up looking like a hypocrite to everyone else who isn't quite so polarized. If your purpose isn't to help convey a coherent argument or viewpoint the only other thing I can think of is some anonymous sense of masochism and superiority.

[mikey_the_redneck]

I might have more trust in vaccination if the vaccine companies themselves stood behind their "product", instead of acquiring legal immunity from the courts in case something goes wrong.

Bad example to use with this measles "outbreak", where just one baby (out of 3 who were diagnosed) was hospitalized, but no deaths in this instance.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I might have more trust in vaccination if the vaccine companies themselves stood behind their "product", instead of acquiring legal immunity from the courts in case something goes wrong.

Vaccine companies don't have legal immunity; it's just that claims for "vaccine injury" are dealt with using a different process. If the companies had to defend themselves in court not only against every legitimate effect but every parent of an autistic child that decides vaccines must be to blame, no one would be able to afford to manufacture vaccines.

With the science supporting vaccination so strong, and the importance of herd immunity meaning that those who don't vaccinate are not only endangering their own kids, but to a lesser extent other people's kids, I have no problem with anti-vaccine people being insulted.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by robocop

and you don't see the hypocrisy in insulting someone for no other reason to make yourself feel better? If you want someone to see your viewpoint do you really think ridicule is an effective way of portraying a message or maybe presenting a coherent argument with objective information is best. If someone refuses to listen just leave it alone, otherwise you just end up looking like a hypocrite to everyone else who isn't quite so polarized. If your purpose isn't to help convey a coherent argument or viewpoint the only other thing I can think of is some anonymous sense of masochism and superiority.

People have presented prety cogent arguments to disprove pretty much all of the anti-vacination arguments. So yeah, once those people have been given information that comes from sources more reliable than one disproved study, and Jenny McCarthy, and they refuse to accept that they may be wrong, they move pretty quickly form "Skeptic" to "Willfully Ignorant".

Is it really any wonder people get frustrated and start making fun of people who claim to be skpetics but ignore an overwhelming body of evidence that disproves their position?

If someone refuses to be reasoned out of a position, they are not a skeptic, they are an ideologist, and thus shouldn't really be involved in debates that require scientific support.

[robocop]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

People have presented prety cogent arguments to disprove pretty much all of the anti-vacination arguments. So yeah, once those people have been given information that comes from sources more reliable than one disproved study, and Jenny McCarthy, and they refuse to accept that they may be wrong, they move pretty quickly form "Skeptic" to "Willfully Ignorant".

Is it really any wonder people get frustrated and start making fun of people who claim to be skpetics but ignore an overwhelming body of evidence that disproves their position?

If someone refuses to be reasoned out of a position, they are not a skeptic, they are an ideologist, and thus shouldn't really be involved in debates that require scientific support.

And myself(and probably many others), being less polarized than the more vocal people in this thread came into this topic curious about what people have to say. Unsurprisingly I see mostly bickering and insults, when I see that I can't take anything you say seriously because you look equally childish as the willfully ignorant. That's why it's counterproductive, you aren't going to convert the ignorant with insults and the objective and curious have trouble giving credence to the opinions of the arrogant and condescending.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by robocop

the research yes, but the regulatory body, Health Canada, is government run. The idea of the government regulating the vaccination of our population while 100% of the people accept it willingly is not a good thing. Skepticism helps enforce proper protocol, ignorance and apathy does not.

Health Canada still employs scientists and medical professionals. You make it sound like a bunch of bureaucrats sitting around making uneducated decisions.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by robocop

And myself(and probably many others), being less polarized than the more vocal people in this thread came into this topic curious about what people have to say. Unsurprisingly I see mostly bickering and insults, when I see that I can't take anything you say seriously because you look equally childish as the willfully ignorant. That's why it's counterproductive, you aren't going to convert the ignorant with insults and the objective and curious have trouble giving credence to the opinions of the arrogant and condescending.

Yeah but apparently overwhelming evidence doesn't sway them either.

[robocop]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Health Canada still employs scientists and medical professionals. You make it sound like a bunch of bureaucrats sitting around making uneducated decisions.

No I don't at all, I stated the truth plain and simple. That's the conclusion you choose to draw from what I said.