Frustrating to watch Sid let Tim get away with all the stupid crap he said. Every time Sid would rant Tim would shut him down and tell him he's wrong but when it was the other way around Sid just nodded.
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I'm sure someone will post video but summary of Burke on SC with Jay and Dan.
Jay and Dan are wearing the Burke knot. Ie ties untied around their necks.
Burke says flames are not preparing to leave. Said he regrets saying they'd leave in a previous quote.
Seattle's arena announcement was a coincidence. No way they could've coordinated this with Bettman's appearance.
Dome is past due date. Was old 15 years ago. Dan mentions heroin beer lol. Says hockey ops guys, him and Tre, should not be negotiating deal, that's for KK.
Message to fans is no arena negotiations are happening right now, nothing else.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 09-13-2017 at 11:07 PM.
Now talking Olympics. Burke supports it but says no insurance is big deal. But says players could have avoided this and disingenuous to now blame it on league/owners. Players had chance to go by separating Olympics and Intl hockey schedule, incl WC, from CBA so they could always go. Remove ability of NHL to make that decision, players said no.
Beijing isn't a sure thing with no insurance even though growing game is important. Reiterates he wants players to be there.
Bettman contract up after next CBA will Burke be next commish? Burke says first he heard of it. Burke says no, Bill Daly should get the job. Wants Flames to be last stop for him.
That's about it. Maybe 5 minutes long.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 09-13-2017 at 11:03 PM.
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Frustrating to watch Sid let Tim get away with all the stupid crap he said. Every time Sid would rant Tim would shut him down and tell him he's wrong but when it was the other way around Sid just nodded.
Yeah, Tim clearly has no idea how taxes work, why should Nenshi care if the players who make 100M collectively pay income taxes, his office doesn't get a cent of that money.
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I'm sure someone will post video but summary of Burke on SC with Jay and Dan.
Jay and Dan are wearing the Burke knot. Ie ties untied around their necks.
Burke says flames are not preparing to leave. Said he regrets saying they'd leave in a previous quote.
Seattle's arena announcement was a coincidence. No way they could've coordinated this with Bettman's appearance.
Dome is past due date. Was old 15 years ago. Dan mentions heroin beer lol. Says hockey ops guys, him and Tre, should not be negotiating deal, that's for KK.
Message to fans is no arena negotiations are happening right now, nothing else.
This is the same #### that happened months ago lol. Whatever, the posturing will continue until the municipal election. Nothing noteworthy will happen until then
The more I think about this the owners should cut out the City altogether and build their own facility.
The owners could spread out the risk among those of us taxpayers who want to participate (to the tune of say $200m which is not an unrealistic amount that could be underwritten by a syndicate of investment banks) by investment under some kind of public REIT structure whereby the owners of the facility (made up of the owners of the Flames, who would own say 2/3 of the equity, and the investors) license the arena to the Flames as primary tenant and receive the benefit of income from other events (concerts, conventions etc.). As long as the arena is profitable, how is this any different than investing in a shopping centre or apartment REIT?
That's the problem though; they want public funding for the arena...
Believe me, if the Flames wanted to build their own stadium, privately funded, the Flames would have had a new arena a decade ago. If they announced a privately funded arena model tomorrow, i'd bet that would be a done deal within a couple of months...
And Joe Taxpayer would have given that a standing ovation.
but they don't want to pay for it own their dime, so we are where we are.
Well it seems like this is gonna just blow over like it did the last time threats were made. They will be back negotiating again and a repeate of this cycle will continue if no deal is reached. Bettman making those comments is so ####ing Bettman and doesn't help the situation at all. I for one am gonna enjoy this season and not let these billionaires ruin hockey for me.
I just don't get the talk about the 'Dome being unsuitable. Every time I went to watch an NHL game at the 'Dome, the game actually took place without a hitch.
As far as I can tell, the 'Dome still seems to work just fine. Let the Flames (and Bettman) stew for another 10 years. I am sure the rent in the meantime will be quite affordable.
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I just don't get the talk about the 'Dome being unsuitable. Every time I went to watch an NHL game at the 'Dome, the game actually took place without a hitch.
That's actually the part I agree with. I think revenues are close to capped in the dome, and it's been trotted out again and again we don't get concerts because of it.
It's not unsuitable for playing hockey in, it's unsuitable for maximizing revenue, or apparently watching Chris Gaines play live.
I got roasted for the the last time that I posted this because most members of CP still worship at the altar of the almighty "CAPITALIST".
But...
Murray Edwards moved from Alberta to England to avoid paying his due taxes to Canada and Alberta and Calgary. And now people are surprised that he is 'taking his ball and going home' when the city won't give him millions in free taxpayer money. Shocking. This guy not only feels that he should not have to pay taxes, but he also feels that the gullible poor idiots who still actually pay taxes should give all that money to him and his private enterprise to help him to make more money.
Anyway... keep arguing for his chosen political side because you love the Flames...
"It is all well and good for children and acid freaks to still believe in Santa Claus — but it is still a profoundly morbid day for us working professionals". H.S.T.
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Last edited by vanisleflamesfan; 09-14-2017 at 01:34 AM.
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A large portion of the Calgary populace will view ceding the arena-building race to Edmonton not as a loss, but as a win: that Cowtown didn’t acquiesce to its hockey barons’ demands. Until the Flames owners can appreciate that, they’ll be stuck in their current saddle.
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One of Nenshi’s big perceived negatives is his arrogance, but King and Bettman have clearly outdone him on that score this week. And it’s not as though a conservative challenger to Nenshi will suddenly promise greater sums on behalf of taxpayers for an arena, and somehow get a better shot at winning that way.
Now talking Olympics. Burke supports it but says no insurance is big deal. But says players could have avoided this and disingenuous to now blame it on league/owners. Players had chance to go by separating Olympics and Intl hockey schedule, incl WC, from CBA so they could always go. Remove ability of NHL to make that decision, players said no.
Beijing isn't a sure thing with no insurance even though growing game is important. Reiterates he wants players to be there.
Bettman contract up after next CBA will Burke be next commish? Burke says first he heard of it. Burke says no, Bill Daly should get the job. Wants Flames to be last stop for him.
That's about it. Maybe 5 minutes long.
Here is the video link to Burkes appearance with Jay and Dan.
I think one thing that gets missed with Nenshis arrogance is he wins.
He got most of the deal he wanted against Calgary suburban developers
He got most of the deal he wanted against Uber
And now he is swinging dicks with Murray Edwards.
So far Nenshis arrogance has been effective at delivering in these types of negotiatons.
It's becoming unusable by NHL standards. What people don't realize is that high performance athletics is not just about showing up at the field and playing the game. These guys work at their craft and fine tune their bodies. They work at it 24x7, 48 weeks a year. As a result of the high demands placed on players making millions of dollars, teams are pushed into providing the facilities that allow these players to train and complete maintenance on-site. Rogers Place has the "community" arena on-site, but this is the team's practice facility where players can skate when other events are going on in the primary arena. They also have a workout facility second to none, with every machine and contraption imaginable. This is so players can maintain their training regime during the season. Teams are no providing meeting areas and video centers to review game tape, so the players are more prepared. These are all being built into the new facilities so the players can "go to work" and have everything in their "office" setting. The Saddledome offers none of these amenities, putting the Flames behind the eight ball.
Watching the Tim & Sid video was interesting. It showed just how divisive this subject is and how emotional it can get (all sides). It changed my mind on certain things, and reinforced others. I don't like how either side has handled this, but have especially become disenchanted with the Flames leadership. They have done a brutal job in stating their needs, communicating their desires, and establishing the value they provide to the community. They have become the bad guys in this because they have been so bad at getting the message out to a community that supports them. Ken King needs to fall on his sword, and the sooner the better.
Having said that, the City and the Flames need to sit down and talk this out. Nenshi really needs to check his ego at the door and listen for a change, or get out of the negotiations completely. The two sides need to agree on needs in the plan, and an incentive package that works for both sides of this. I don't know what that is going to look like at this point, but I suspect it will require the City to give more than a loan, and the Flames to give on their desires to become real estate developers. This gong show has become a massive black eye for the city as a whole and certainly reflects poorly on all parties. Both sides are going to have to take several bites of the #### sandwich they have made if they hope to get out of the corner they have maneuvered themselves in and save face.
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Bottom line IMO, it comes down to this.
Eventually this city will need a new arena...sooner more than later.
The Flames. like it or not, will both have, and use, the ability to move to another city as leverage in ANY deal that comes along. That's just reality.
So it comes down to a simple question. Do you want the Flames to pay for 2/3 of a new arena in any deal which they will want control and concessions on, or do you want the entire cost to be absorbed by the city who can build what they want and where they want. This happened in both Winnipeg and Quebec City in the last 20 years as examples though there were some different circumstances.
IMO one makes way more sense than the other, but there is a pretty sizable group who would disagree.
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The value of this 200 million payback that they are fighting over is about 8 million per year. Will a new arena in Calgary make 8 million per year less than a new arena elsewhere? Probably not.
And don't compare Seattle. Seattle is not getting a relocation. The NHL wants half a billion from them for an expansion fee. So really that leaves Quebec as the comparable. And you aren't going to make 8 million a year more in Quebec City than you are here. If the flames sell for 300 million to the Seattle Arena group then they pay a 200 mil relocation fee each team is out 10 million compared to expansion. There are also far cheaper teams to buy and move than the flames would be.
So the answer is call their bluff and wait until they want to negotiate and make your deal in 2022 the day before they announce moving. The key is making them believe that you don't care if they move
So as taxpayers in every poll you should be against using public funds for the arena. Any other response costs the city and you the taxpayer leverage.
Last edited by GGG; 09-14-2017 at 08:13 AM.
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Murray Edwards moved from Alberta to England to avoid paying his due taxes to Canada and Alberta and Calgary. And now people are surprised that he is 'taking his ball and going home' when the city won't give him millions in free taxpayer money. Shocking.
The people believe that putting even more exorbitant taxes on the wealthy will somehow magically fix the world's ills and they respond by simply moving someplace else. Shocking.
I suppose forcibly seizing passports of economic enemies of the state would be the suitably communist next step?
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Originally Posted by GGG
Or you call their bluff.
The value of this 200 million payback that they are fighting over is about 8 million per year. Will a new arena in Calgary make 8 million per year less than a new arena elsewhere? Probably not.
And don't compare Seattle. Seattle is not getting a relocation. The NHL wants half a billion from them for an expansion fee. So really that leaves Quebec as the comparable. And you aren't going to make 8 million a year more in Quebec City than you are here. If the flames sell for 300 million to the Seattle Arena group then they pay a 200 mil relocation fee each team is out 10 million compared to expansion. There are also far cheaper teams to buy and move than the flames would be.
So the answer is call their bluff and wait until they want to negotiate and make your deal in 2022 the day before they announce moving. The key is making them believe that you don't care if they move
So as taxpayers in every poll you should be against using public funds for the arena. Any other response costs the city and you the taxpayer leverage.
You want to play that game with Murray Edwards and Clay Riddell?
Good luck with that. You will lose that battle every single time. Again, that is just the reality of things. If that is yout stance, be prepared for the team to leave and sooner rather than later.
As for your poll question, I was under the impression that has been done and it was a majority that wanted a new arena using public funds, but I may be wrong on that.
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And don't compare Seattle. Seattle is not getting a relocation. The NHL wants half a billion from them for an expansion fee. So really that leaves Quebec as the comparable. And you aren't going to make 8 million a year more in Quebec City than you are here. If the flames sell for 300 million to the Seattle Arena group then they pay a 200 mil relocation fee each team is out 10 million compared to expansion. There are also far cheaper teams to buy and move than the flames would be.
Teams aren't going to care about a one time $10m payment that dilutes their long term revenues and valuations, especially since NHL isn't at a level of demand that can handle another expansion after Vegas. They would 100% prefer relocation today.
