Alberta Politics Thread v2

[PepsiFree]

A lot that has been said about the NDP re: experience and “radicalism” could easily be said about the Wildrose, and they now make up part of the UCP.

I do find the experience part a little bit strange. Would people prefer being led by “regular” people, or career politicians? I think there is a case to be made for both, and I think having both is what made the NDP and the Wildrose so appealing. The Conservatives are largely made up of career politicians, and I can’t say the last 5-10 years of their leadership in Alberta was a sparkling endorsement for that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

best part of seeing the NDP lose the next election will be to judge their actions afterwards.
I bet the vast majority will go back to being exactly the same as they were before they were elected.

all Notley's pipline rhetoric is just too obvious as electoral pandering.

Yeah it's going to be interesting to see when they are ousted if they go back to their roots or continue in this new direction.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A lot that has been said about the NDP re: experience and “radicalism” could easily be said about the Wildrose, and they now make up part of the UCP.

I do find the experience part a little bit strange. Would people prefer being led by “regular” people, or career politicians? I think there is a case to be made for both, and I think having both is what made the NDP and the Wildrose so appealing. The Conservatives are largely made up of career politicians, and I can’t say the last 5-10 years of their leadership in Alberta was a sparkling endorsement for that.

And wheres the endorsement for the mix?

The NDP were a mix, as you said, and they've been predictably incompetent.

Not exactly a sparkling endorsement for that model either.

Granted, straying from the career Politician to the 'Regular Joe' (ie. non-politician) is pretty much exactly what America has done and thats not going particularly well either.

[Ozy_Flame]

Anyone know anything about the release of a UCP platform? Any specific (or even general) dates or timelines? Not really finding anything on the Google with exacts.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Anyone know anything about the release of a UCP platform? Any specific (or even general) dates or timelines? Not really finding anything on the Google with exacts.

Well they have 255 days until May 31, 2019. I know that I would like to see it so that I can start to weigh my options.

[Regorium]

You guys actually expect the UCP to release a platform with detailed policy after what we've seen be effective all around us?

Here's their platform:
1) The NDP is horrible.
2) Carbon tax sucks.
3) Find inefficiencies and cut red tape.
4) *insert one catchy phrase that does nothing but appeals to the lowest denominator* (eg. buck a beer, MAGA, can't someone else do it)
5) hard working middle class Albertans.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You guys actually expect the UCP to release a platform with detailed policy after what we've seen be effective all around us?

Here's their platform:
1) The NDP is horrible.
2) Carbon tax sucks.
3) Find inefficiencies and cut red tape.
4) *insert one catchy phrase that does nothing but appeals to the lowest denominator* (eg. buck a beer, MAGA, can't someone else do it)
5) hard working middle class Albertans.

I guess it comes down to the question, would you rather vote for a party with a bad plan, or a party with no plan?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You guys actually expect the UCP to release a platform with detailed policy after what we've seen be effective all around us?

Here's their platform:
1) The NDP is horrible.
2) Carbon tax sucks.
3) Find inefficiencies and cut red tape.
4) *insert one catchy phrase that does nothing but appeals to the lowest denominator* (eg. buck a beer, MAGA, can't someone else do it)
5) hard working middle class Albertans.

well if we really want to get into the details, the NDP 2014 platform was pretty scant on the whole "carbon tax" thing...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

well if we really want to get into the details, the NDP 2014 platform was pretty scant on the whole "carbon tax" thing...

As in: It wasnt there.

And since it didnt achieve its 'Social License' mandate it should be immediately scrapped.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

well if we really want to get into the details, the NDP 2014 platform was pretty scant on the whole "carbon tax" thing...

Notley assumed voters understood what she was going to do.

The NDP platform in the spring election that brought them to power promised to take leadership on climate change and a coal phase-out, but made no mention of a carbon tax.

“We talked a lot about the need to develop a climate change strategy and to look at different elements,” said Notley.

“I think this was always understood, that looking at whether we had an appropriate carbon price was absolutely one of the things that would be part of the climate change strategy. And so we were very clear about it.”

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...on-tax-mandate

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

well if we really want to get into the details, the NDP 2014 platform was pretty scant on the whole "carbon tax" thing...

No, but they were pretty upfront that they would use an independant advisory group to engage with Albertans and advise the government on a reccomended course of action. The Climate Change Advisory Panel came back with the plan to price carbon.

The narrative that the NDP were doing something devious by not campaigning on specifically a carbon tax is just ignorance. They said all along that something was going to be done in regards to climate change. They did exactly what they said they would and relied on the advice of experts in making that plan, not just some off the cuff lefty agenda.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by belsarius

No, but they were pretty upfront that they would use an independant advisory group to engage with Albertans and advise the government on a reccomended course of action. The Climate Change Advisory Panel came back with the plan to price carbon.

The narrative that the NDP were doing something devious by not campaigning on specifically a carbon tax is just ignorance. They said all along that something was going to be done in regards to climate change. They did exactly what they said they would and relied on the advice of experts in making that plan, not just some off the cuff lefty agenda.

So, that same group of people telling the Federal Government that they can take their 'Climate Plan' and shove it constitutes what?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I guess it comes down to the question, would you rather vote for a party with a bad plan, or a party with no plan?

Well, I'm just saying that we've seen "party with no plan" has won almost every major election in the past few years and even most minor elections (Bill Smith being one outlier, but even he came close), so I'm not sure why anyone would expect the UCP would reveal a platform with any sort of actual policy.

Would you vote for a party with no plan?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Locke

So, that same group of people telling the Federal Government that they can take their 'Climate Plan' and shove it constitutes what?

It constitutes a political statement that Alberta won't support the Federal Government if they don't support us. It doesn't mean they no longer support carbon pricing, they just don't support the federal government. Nothing but trying to score political points.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Well, I'm just saying that we've seen "party with no plan" has won almost every major election in the past few years and even most minor elections (Bill Smith being one outlier, but even he came close), so I'm not sure why anyone would expect the UCP would reveal a platform with any sort of actual policy.

Would you vote for a party with no plan?

Buy this mystery box. You'll find out what's in it after you purchase it.

snickers and runs away.

[Manhattanboy]

UCP with no plan >>>>> NDP with plan.

[Dion]

Notley told Albertans if we just pay more for everything somehow magically pipeline opponents would become pipeline supporters and pipelines would get built.

[Manhattanboy]

Seriously the problem with socialist governments is that you get blindsided by their post-election taxes and spending on top of any pre-election platforms. Witness the NDP in BC that introduced their abhorrent and dishonest speculation tax after they cobbled their coalition together with the Green Party. At least have the guts to tell people about it before they vote....

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Seriously the problem with socialist governments is that you get blindsided by their post-election taxes and spending on top of any pre-election platforms. Witness the NDP in BC that introduced their abhorrent and dishonest speculation tax after they cobbled their coalition together with the Green Party. At least have the guts to tell people about it before they vote....

And the problem with conservative governments is they blindside you with cuts to essential services and the vulnerable of society so they can give tax breaks to the rich. Witness the Ford government immediatly making cuts to welfare programs and ending the guarenteed income pilot project when they campaigned specifically on leaving it intact. At least have the guts to tell people about it before they vote....

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Well, I'm just saying that we've seen "party with no plan" has won almost every major election in the past few years and even most minor elections (Bill Smith being one outlier, but even he came close), so I'm not sure why anyone would expect the UCP would reveal a platform with any sort of actual policy.

Would you vote for a party with no plan?

I agree that in this election particularly the UCP have a strong base regardless of their policies and platforms. Indeed, strong well articulated policies are not a large aspect of gaining political currency anymore, media slander seems to be more important. Maybe I am a fool for caring about party promises, most of which wont get delivered anyways.

In short, I would prefer to vote for a party with no chance of winning over a party that has no platform or plan.

Would you vote for a party with no plan?