I was instructed to keep a diary, which I started from the day that I asked for the raise. There is likely enough there to work with if I decide to go that way, but the company would fight it tooth and nail. I'm not sure if the cost/benefit is worth it.
My days are numbered there, but my disappointment is epic. I'm a proven moneymaker in my position, and it means nothing. Not even a subtle brag. I'm good at what I do.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
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I'm not really keeping the diary and looking at those options from a bloodthirsty perspective. I've seen this play out with other people, whom didn't deserve the treatment I'm now getting.
I don't think going after them will net me much of anything, but it could help others from being in this position in the future.
Self preservation might lead me into just moving on. I will leave my contact information with the people on my management level either way, if they want to reach out for support in the future.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
My boss's boss has a (well earned) reputation for pushing people out of the company when he feels that his will is not being followed as an uber-god. I've seen a lot of people in a management position leave or pushed out over my tenure. I've kept my head down.
My mistake was pointing out that the store I manage was going to increase revenue by a significant margin over the course of the year, and that I would like to discuss the possibility of a pay increase. I have been underpaid by market standards for the duration of my time there.
What I could only call bullying started occurring the next week, when instead of the compensation meeting for which I prepared, we had a meeting discussing any minor issue I've had over the last three years (some of them quite petty and ridiculous) and how I'm being put on probation. I've never been formally chastised for anything in the past.
This months gross revenue increase is hovering around 20%, and I'm being given 'remedial training' starting this second week, since my request.
I am beyond frustrated. I'm looking into buying a competing existing store. I'm also not looking forward to searching for a new job, especially since I'm basically living month to month now.
Sorry for bringing the thread down, CP is about as close as I'll get to therapy.
After 36 days of stress. 60 applications, 25 first interviews 20 seconds, 16 thirds and a final negotiation with the company I wanted, I received my verbal offer tonight with written to follow on Friday with a starting date of November 5th.
all I can say is thank god, I mean things can go wrong but I have a good solid offer, I have to get used to working from home, which is great for the following reasons.
Tax write offs for home office (I think need to research that). Savings of probably a bit more then $200.00 a month, a sharp reduction in expensive lunches. No more spending an hour a day on the commute. A new and really interesting job. A bump in pay.
Hopefully this will work out great.
I want to thank all you guys and girls for your support. After several months of some of the absolute most shytty things happening to me and my friends and family, it was a big weight off my shoulders to get some good news.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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So I thought that I would document my search and what worked and what didn't. Hopefully the folks present and future in this thread might find something that is helpful.
The shock of losing your job.
Even if you hated your job, its still a punch in the gut to lose it. I know that first couple of days, I was crushed and asking a lot of the wrong questions. A layoff isn't really your fault. If you did something really wrong and got fired, you probably have to remember that as a human being and a employee that you have value.
Everyone told me to relax and enjoy being out of the grind, but I've always had a lot of trouble with that. So after a day and a half I sat down and asked myself a lot of questions job related and otherwise.
1) What's my budget going to look like - Fortunately I got a decent enough package that if I cut out the things I viewed as unnecessary spending I wouldn't have to cut into my savings for several months.
2) Apply for EI right away, I did and I was receiving payments within two weeks. Even at the max, its not terrific money but its better then nothing.
3) Financially plan things out. Look at building a contingency plan in case anything goes wrong. For example the unfortunate thing is that my benefits expired a month after my lay off. So while I had made sure that I took care of the things that I needed like a dental cleaning, eye glasses stuff and all that. About 2 days after my expiration I had a accident that lead to some dental work which cost me money that I didn't want to spend.
The pre job search.
1) Absolutely sit down and map out what you've enjoyed about your career and your last couple of jobs, and what you didn't enjoy. I enjoyed a lot about my jobs. But I mapped out the things that I didn't, I'll give you an example.
a) Old school prospecting, too many that I worked with had the old school pick up the phone marketing, and while there's a place for it, I find that its lost its effectiveness. So I didn't want to go to an organization that emphasized it.
b) Solutions engineering dealing with interested prospects and clients - I decided I wanted to work for a company that was forward thinking in getting their brand out there.
Those are two examples, but there are a lot more. But once I mapped out the fields that I was interested in and how they would do business, it was time to spring into action.
The early application process
1) Do set yourself up with indeed.ca, zip recruiter, monster and eluta. Set up alerts with multiple position descriptions. For me, I set up technical sales, business development manager, pre sales engineer, sales engineer, Director of sales, VP of sales etc. The more the merrier, because frankly a lot of posts don't match their normal descriptors.
2) Set up your own spreadsheet to track who you apply to. I tracked date, company names, where I found it, a link to the posting and a step tracker. I treated it like a sales funnel so I could easily track where I was.
3) Carefully read the job descriptions. Then research the crap out of the company to make sure its interesting to you. A lot of people just desperately fling applications out to anything close. This is a chance to reinvest in yourself.
4) Absolutely do research on the company. I did this for two reasons. One do I really want to attach my name to the company. Two it helps you formulate your application if need be. 3 You look like your extremely well prepared and have questions if you get to the interview stage. I would go to glassdoor, Clutch, I would find press releases, go to the companies social media pages, go through linked in to see if I know anyone working there. Act like your an investor, do you want to invest your human capital in this company. Beyond being interesting, how are their employee reviews? How are their product reviews, is this a company that restructured recently, or attracted investment.
5) Make sure that your resume is relevant to the position, I had 4 resumes, one that emphasized account management skills, one that emphasized technical skills, one that emphasized leadership skills, and one short form. Make sure your resume does more then point form your duties, hint at achievements and being a driving force in the organizations that you were with.
6) Make sure that you have the references that your comfortable lined up, make sure that your cognizant of their time as well.
7) Apply to those that either really interest you, or are in the your wheel house. I can't emphasize enough that I used that in my interviews when the question came out why us? It dosen't sound like I was picky because I put out 50 applications, but I frankly could have put out a lot more then that.
8) Do expand your search, find companies that do things that could match your skill sets, reach out to your network, not to ask them for a job, but to ask for their time for a coffee and their take on their industry, call it a crash course educational update, you'd also be surprised if your really prepared around how many of your contacts are either hiring or know a guy.
9) When you apply, you want to make sure you send a cover letter. If you send no cover letter or a generic one you will be murdered by your competition. I customized my cover letters by making sure that they knew why I applied, my relevant experience, and then I took their job requirements and matched them to 3 or 4 bullet points, it shows that your dilligent.
Ok, I'm probably missing a bunch but here goes.
The application process has changed from the old days, as was explained to me by one interviewer its a buyers market so we can afford to be completely thorough.
Usually the first interview is either a phone interview or questionaire.
If its a questionaire, be thoughtful and thorough and truthful. Its easy for them to trip you up later if your not. The phone interview I found was usually by a person in HR. They want to ask questions, but they don't care about your indepth answers. This is a good way to prime the pump so to speak. Let them describe the job and the company and ask their questions. Answer them, and keep on point, and illustrate in your answers how your strengths and experiences match up.
From there I was getting the usually personality profile tests. They all say the same thing, answer using your first instincts. Sure that's good, but the test will trip you up if you do, make sure that you're careful to read the questions and take a second to make sure that you're comfortable with the choices and answers.
Usually after passing that by, you will get the first of probably multiple stake holder interviews. Again I can't emphasize enough, research research research. Also practice practice practice. I used some of my contacts for mock interviews. If you're prepared, you'll be relaxed in the interview. Usually stake holders which in my case ended up being C levels are canny enough to spot nerves and BS and they'll pretty much end your hopes early.
Now an interview is an awesome chance to interview them as well, and lessons learned from your successes will carry onto other interviews.
Absolutely do try to disarm the interviewer away from a functionary interview and try to build a conversation. Also make sure you use clarification statements when you can to dive deeper. I understand this, can you clarify that.
Make sure that you answer questions and make sure that you sketch out what you did in the past and how it matches the future. If you can use selling statements you can start building towards an interviewer that closes himself on you. Remember a job hunt is a sales job, don't forget it. It doesn't matter if an interviewer likes you on a personal basis or thinks your a great guy or gal. There is always someone in the process that sells the value and return on investment of his or her employer. Remember its a buyers market.
Sometimes you have to paint a picture. I will admit that I loved the no double meat back and forth on CalgaryPuck, and I used that when talking to a VP of Operations when he asked me about the current business environment in Alberta right now. I asked him if he ate at subway and when he indicated that he did, I used the please god if the economy turns around I won't order double meat on my sub because I can. Thanks Calgary Puck.
When they turn the interview over to you to ask questions, I learned talking to interviewers that they would dismiss people that didn't ask good questions or asked generic questions. This is where the research came into play and I would ask questions that would not only require them to think. But would force them to sell me on the company and the position.
In a generic sense
What's your favorite thing about working here? If you could change one or two things what would they be. I noticed that your reviews on clutch.com or glass door were this, can you talk about that. I noticed that you guys recently did this deal, or that you had an investor come in or you laid off 500 people, can we discuss that? It makes you look prepared and builds towards the end of the interview.
At the end of the interview, ask them their thoughts. Is there any information that you don't have that's a concern. Did I miss anything. What can your company do to make me a great employee, where do you see road blocks for me. This is a form of assumptive closing that makes them think ongoing.
Absolutely do ask about next steps and absolutely do set follow up milestones, if you don't you've left the interview as just being an interview. If you set up milestones and follow up and you execute them well, it really will elevate you and make you memorable.
I'm going to stop now. In the next couple of days, I'll add on in terms of followup, in terms of evaluating the role and your comfort level, and anything else I can think of.
My final piece of advice today, don't just treat a job search as a job and that you're going to spend 4 hours a day on it. Treat it like your a one man investment firm and you not only want to be satisfied that you're going to see a return on investment from them that's more then a pay check. But also so that you can frame your whole story around the positives that you bring to that organization over the 100's of other applicants.
As always, any feedback is appreciated, and I think that this is such a crucial thread for those that like me were crushed and wondering what the hell to do when the chair was pulled out from under them.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Hey Captain, just a quick question from the beginning of your post. It has been a few years since I was laid off and as such on EI but how did you start to receive payment within two weeks if you received a severance package? I thought the Government pushed back the start of EI payments based on the value of your severance package? I recall when I was laid off and applied for EI it was quite a while before I started receiving payment because of severance although I applied right away.
Congrats Captain. Good on you. I really appreciate the effort you put into documenting your process. It is very consistent with the advice I have been given.
Working at home is wonderful but the one major landmine to look out for is the interpersonal relationships at your company. You have to be very diligent in fostering those relationships as you can turn into a mushroom really fast. Get out to see your supervisors and other superiors at every chance. Make an effort to maintain a dialogue with them. It is too easy for them to develop an out of sight out of mind attitude and then they just assume you are not performing. Be your own best advocate.
Thanks again.
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So I thought that I would document my search and what worked and what didn't. Hopefully the folks present and future in this thread might find something that is helpful.
The shock of losing your job.
Even if you hated your job, its still a punch in the gut to lose it. I know that first couple of days, I was crushed and asking a lot of the wrong questions. A layoff isn't really your fault. If you did something really wrong and got fired, you probably have to remember that as a human being and a employee that you have value.
Everyone told me to relax and enjoy being out of the grind, but I've always had a lot of trouble with that. So after a day and a half I sat down and asked myself a lot of questions job related and otherwise.
1) What's my budget going to look like - Fortunately I got a decent enough package that if I cut out the things I viewed as unnecessary spending I wouldn't have to cut into my savings for several months.
2) Apply for EI right away, I did and I was receiving payments within two weeks. Even at the max, its not terrific money but its better then nothing.
3) Financially plan things out. Look at building a contingency plan in case anything goes wrong. For example the unfortunate thing is that my benefits expired a month after my lay off. So while I had made sure that I took care of the things that I needed like a dental cleaning, eye glasses stuff and all that. About 2 days after my expiration I had a accident that lead to some dental work which cost me money that I didn't want to spend.
The pre job search.
1) Absolutely sit down and map out what you've enjoyed about your career and your last couple of jobs, and what you didn't enjoy. I enjoyed a lot about my jobs. But I mapped out the things that I didn't, I'll give you an example.
a) Old school prospecting, too many that I worked with had the old school pick up the phone marketing, and while there's a place for it, I find that its lost its effectiveness. So I didn't want to go to an organization that emphasized it.
b) Solutions engineering dealing with interested prospects and clients - I decided I wanted to work for a company that was forward thinking in getting their brand out there.
Those are two examples, but there are a lot more. But once I mapped out the fields that I was interested in and how they would do business, it was time to spring into action.
The early application process
1) Do set yourself up with indeed.ca, zip recruiter, monster and eluta. Set up alerts with multiple position descriptions. For me, I set up technical sales, business development manager, pre sales engineer, sales engineer, Director of sales, VP of sales etc. The more the merrier, because frankly a lot of posts don't match their normal descriptors.
2) Set up your own spreadsheet to track who you apply to. I tracked date, company names, where I found it, a link to the posting and a step tracker. I treated it like a sales funnel so I could easily track where I was.
3) Carefully read the job descriptions. Then research the crap out of the company to make sure its interesting to you. A lot of people just desperately fling applications out to anything close. This is a chance to reinvest in yourself.
4) Absolutely do research on the company. I did this for two reasons. One do I really want to attach my name to the company. Two it helps you formulate your application if need be. 3 You look like your extremely well prepared and have questions if you get to the interview stage. I would go to glassdoor, Clutch, I would find press releases, go to the companies social media pages, go through linked in to see if I know anyone working there. Act like your an investor, do you want to invest your human capital in this company. Beyond being interesting, how are their employee reviews? How are their product reviews, is this a company that restructured recently, or attracted investment.
5) Make sure that your resume is relevant to the position, I had 4 resumes, one that emphasized account management skills, one that emphasized technical skills, one that emphasized leadership skills, and one short form. Make sure your resume does more then point form your duties, hint at achievements and being a driving force in the organizations that you were with.
6) Make sure that you have the references that your comfortable lined up, make sure that your cognizant of their time as well.
7) Apply to those that either really interest you, or are in the your wheel house. I can't emphasize enough that I used that in my interviews when the question came out why us? It dosen't sound like I was picky because I put out 50 applications, but I frankly could have put out a lot more then that.
8) Do expand your search, find companies that do things that could match your skill sets, reach out to your network, not to ask them for a job, but to ask for their time for a coffee and their take on their industry, call it a crash course educational update, you'd also be surprised if your really prepared around how many of your contacts are either hiring or know a guy.
9) When you apply, you want to make sure you send a cover letter. If you send no cover letter or a generic one you will be murdered by your competition. I customized my cover letters by making sure that they knew why I applied, my relevant experience, and then I took their job requirements and matched them to 3 or 4 bullet points, it shows that your dilligent.
Ok, I'm probably missing a bunch but here goes.
The application process has changed from the old days, as was explained to me by one interviewer its a buyers market so we can afford to be completely thorough.
Usually the first interview is either a phone interview or questionaire.
If its a questionaire, be thoughtful and thorough and truthful. Its easy for them to trip you up later if your not. The phone interview I found was usually by a person in HR. They want to ask questions, but they don't care about your indepth answers. This is a good way to prime the pump so to speak. Let them describe the job and the company and ask their questions. Answer them, and keep on point, and illustrate in your answers how your strengths and experiences match up.
From there I was getting the usually personality profile tests. They all say the same thing, answer using your first instincts. Sure that's good, but the test will trip you up if you do, make sure that you're careful to read the questions and take a second to make sure that you're comfortable with the choices and answers.
Usually after passing that by, you will get the first of probably multiple stake holder interviews. Again I can't emphasize enough, research research research. Also practice practice practice. I used some of my contacts for mock interviews. If you're prepared, you'll be relaxed in the interview. Usually stake holders which in my case ended up being C levels are canny enough to spot nerves and BS and they'll pretty much end your hopes early.
Now an interview is an awesome chance to interview them as well, and lessons learned from your successes will carry onto other interviews.
Absolutely do try to disarm the interviewer away from a functionary interview and try to build a conversation. Also make sure you use clarification statements when you can to dive deeper. I understand this, can you clarify that.
Make sure that you answer questions and make sure that you sketch out what you did in the past and how it matches the future. If you can use selling statements you can start building towards an interviewer that closes himself on you. Remember a job hunt is a sales job, don't forget it. It doesn't matter if an interviewer likes you on a personal basis or thinks your a great guy or gal. There is always someone in the process that sells the value and return on investment of his or her employer. Remember its a buyers market.
Sometimes you have to paint a picture. I will admit that I loved the no double meat back and forth on CalgaryPuck, and I used that when talking to a VP of Operations when he asked me about the current business environment in Alberta right now. I asked him if he ate at subway and when he indicated that he did, I used the please god if the economy turns around I won't order double meat on my sub because I can. Thanks Calgary Puck.
When they turn the interview over to you to ask questions, I learned talking to interviewers that they would dismiss people that didn't ask good questions or asked generic questions. This is where the research came into play and I would ask questions that would not only require them to think. But would force them to sell me on the company and the position.
In a generic sense
What's your favorite thing about working here? If you could change one or two things what would they be. I noticed that your reviews on clutch.com or glass door were this, can you talk about that. I noticed that you guys recently did this deal, or that you had an investor come in or you laid off 500 people, can we discuss that? It makes you look prepared and builds towards the end of the interview.
At the end of the interview, ask them their thoughts. Is there any information that you don't have that's a concern. Did I miss anything. What can your company do to make me a great employee, where do you see road blocks for me. This is a form of assumptive closing that makes them think ongoing.
Absolutely do ask about next steps and absolutely do set follow up milestones, if you don't you've left the interview as just being an interview. If you set up milestones and follow up and you execute them well, it really will elevate you and make you memorable.
I'm going to stop now. In the next couple of days, I'll add on in terms of followup, in terms of evaluating the role and your comfort level, and anything else I can think of.
My final piece of advice today, don't just treat a job search as a job and that you're going to spend 4 hours a day on it. Treat it like your a one man investment firm and you not only want to be satisfied that you're going to see a return on investment from them that's more then a pay check. But also so that you can frame your whole story around the positives that you bring to that organization over the 100's of other applicants.
As always, any feedback is appreciated, and I think that this is such a crucial thread for those that like me were crushed and wondering what the hell to do when the chair was pulled out from under them.
Hey Captain, just a quick question from the beginning of your post. It has been a few years since I was laid off and as such on EI but how did you start to receive payment within two weeks if you received a severance package? I thought the Government pushed back the start of EI payments based on the value of your severance package? I recall when I was laid off and applied for EI it was quite a while before I started receiving payment because of severance although I applied right away.
Yah you have to wait out your severance period so some clarification there would be nice.
So I thought that I would document my search and what worked and what didn't. Hopefully the folks present and future in this thread might find something that is helpful.
The shock of losing your job.
Even if you hated your job, its still a punch in the gut to lose it. I know that first couple of days, I was crushed and asking a lot of the wrong questions. A layoff isn't really your fault. If you did something really wrong and got fired, you probably have to remember that as a human being and a employee that you have value.
As someone who had to give the bad news to over half my group after oil prices crashed this point is very much true, and our HR people made it clear to us that we should communicate this to the people we had to let go. At least in our circumstances this was absolutely true, nobody was being let go due to job performance or any other reason other than we were downsizing to survive. Hard for the people on the wrong end of the conversation and I'm not sure how many truly believed it but it really was the truth.
