Colten Bushie murder trial

[wretched34]

Maybe Jury Duty should become a practicum for law students. Like an apprenticeship, every year students must put in x amount of hours on a Jury.
That way you get juries made up of individuals pursuing a career in law, so they should be more unbiased and concentrate on the actual legalities of a case, rather than personal feelings. This way they also get first hand experience in the courtrooms, and learn not only the legal side, but how to carry themselves in their future work environment.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Maybe Jury Duty should become a practicum for law students. Like an apprenticeship, every year students must put in x amount of hours on a Jury.
That way you get juries made up of individuals pursuing a career in law, so they should be more unbiased and concentrate on the actual legalities of a case, rather than personal feelings. This way they also get first hand experience in the courtrooms, and learn not only the legal side, but how to carry themselves in their future work environment.

Juries decide facts. Judges decide law.

[station]

https://paherald.sk.ca/2018/02/12/ra...eving-indians/

[CaramonLS]

Take this for what you will, it is the Toronto Sun.

MALCOLM: Half of prospective Boushie jurors were Aboriginal, says member of the jury pool

“On the other side of the room, it was maybe three-quarters First Nations people,” the person said, estimating that approximately 85-100 of the initial 200 prospective jurors were Aboriginal.

“You could audibly hear some of them talking amongst themselves, discussing how they were going to hang Stanley, or they were going to make sure he gets hung, or that if they don’t get the results they want, that they were going to handle it themselves,” the person said of the Aboriginal people who remained. This account comes from one individual who spoke with the Sun, and has not yet been corroborated by other witnesses."

The prospective juror also dismissed that idea, suggesting the defence council challenged individuals who had made openly biased comments. Besides, the person added, “they were challenging white people too.”

[JJolg]

https://www.facebook.com/tamaraworor...c_location=ufi

[soulchoice]

This is definitely going to be studied and conversed about for some time. Especially with the potential racial undertones. I do have empathy for the indigenous people and how they are treated so this is a tough one. I didn't follow this story overall too much since the incident.

I may be alone in my thoughts on the topic of robberies and break ins. I have no qualms with someone shooting and or killing someone for theft on their property. I know it will never be that way in Canada due to the laws which exist. However I have no issues with someone being dealt with in that manner should they choose to break in and attempt to rob/steal something that is not theirs. Especially when our homes are to be our safe zones in life. In that case even my bluray player is worth more than any robbers life, should they choose to intrude and take away my solace in my home and property. But that is my opinion only.

[icecube]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00002937039111

[icecube]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...4&id=585375113

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by icecube

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00002937039111

Can you clarify exactly what it is that you are suggesting?

If the events that unfolded had been exactly the same except for it being a group of white adults attacking the farm do you believe the outcome would have been different?

If so, why?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, it's not like serving on a jury is merit-based in the first place. That's a large part of the problem.

That is, quite literally, the entire point of a jury.

It is made up of Joe and Jane Everyman.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Maybe Jury Duty should become a practicum for law students. Like an apprenticeship, every year students must put in x amount of hours on a Jury.
That way you get juries made up of individuals pursuing a career in law, so they should be more unbiased and concentrate on the actual legalities of a case, rather than personal feelings. This way they also get first hand experience in the courtrooms, and learn not only the legal side, but how to carry themselves in their future work environment.

Law students and lawyers are not allowed to be on juries.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

That is, quite literally, the entire point of a jury.

It is made up of Joe and Jane Everyman.

I appreciate that. It doesn’t mean that it is a good idea.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by opendoor

But those are not uncontested facts. They're what the defense said happened, but there's no real evidence of that beyond Stanley's testimony.

And this is the exact way it is supposed to, and should, work. The Crown must prove their case beyond a reasobable doubt, it is no incumbent on the accused to provide evidence supporting their innocence. In this case, the jury clearly felt that the Crown presented no evidence supporting their charges.

The way you are talking, it sounds like you would be fine if the accused in trials were forced to prove their innocence.

[GGG]

The fact that the defense in cases like Gomeshi opts not for a Jury trial shows that bias definately exists. It's also why the defense in this case made the emotional self defense while not using it as a defense. Juries have preexisting bias that the defense tries to exploit or avoid.

It a system that works great for majorities but not so well for minorities who end up being convicted at a higher rate.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Can you clarify exactly what it is that you are suggesting?

If the events that unfolded had been exactly the same except for it being a group of white adults attacking the farm do you believe the outcome would have been different?

If so, why?

Did you read both Facebook posts? I think they're pretty self explanatory.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by icecube

Did you read both Facebook posts? I think they're pretty self explanatory.

And they're wrong. I posted about the Weibo Ludwig case up-thread. White teens tearing around a farmer's land, 16 year old girl shot dead.

[OMG!WTF!]

I love how people just get so played by the media...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...inue-1.4527807

A couple days before the verdict everybody loves the jury....

Relatives of the young man shot on a Saskatchewan farm are thankful to jurors for their service as deliberations continue for a second day at Gerald Stanley's murder trial, the lawyer for Colten Boushie's family says. "The jury's job is to render a just verdict, so they're taking their job seriously … whatever verdict the jury comes up with in this case, I believe that based on the evidence that they've heard that it will be a reasonable verdict," criminal lawyer Chris Murphy said outside the Battleford courthouse where the case is being tried.
"It's very apparent that the jury is taking their oath very seriously."

Now they're just a bunch of racists produced by a fundamentally racist system. Sour grapes in my opinion.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And they're wrong. I posted about the Weibo Ludwig case up-thread. White teens tearing around a farmer's land, 16 year old girl shot dead.

A certified loony like Wiebo Ludwig doesn't do anything to strengthen your case. Those posts are not wrong. Indigenous people don't get treated or viewed the same way that white people do. White privilege is real. If we can't have a completely honest conversation about racism in Canada we will never move forward.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by icecube

Did you read both Facebook posts? I think they're pretty self explanatory.

Yes I did. The one you posted is not comparable to the events that happened.
Your response provides zero clarification.
Do you think the outcome would have been different?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by GGG

The fact that the defense in cases like Gomeshi opts not for a Jury trial shows that bias definately exists. It's also why the defense in this case made the emotional self defense while not using it as a defense. Juries have preexisting bias that the defense tries to exploit or avoid.

It a system that works great for majorities but not so well for minorities who end up being convicted at a higher rate.

Do you think FNs are convicted at a higher rate because of the makeup of juries or because of the systemic inequalities that they suffer from (and have suffered from for hundreds of years)?

The accused gets to choose a jury trial or not. If FNs accused feel that jury trials are 'against' them, then they can elect for a judge alone.