[News] Update: Flames sign Johannes Kinnvall to a 2 yr ELC. Will come to NA after 20/21

[---Hatrick---]

I think we need to take a wait and see approach with how we see Tanev performs with this group, and where he excels.
I do think the way it’s looking right now, he may be a good stop gap until some of our prospects are ready to earn a spot as soon as next season, and ultimately will be exposed to Seattle.

If we have a prospect or 2 ready for a spot next season, we will hope that Seattle will take Tanev off our hands.

Can’t blame Tre for getting him signed as we needed right handed D men badly, and I would say that he will be a good Brodie replacement. We will see

[Sandman]

I think there are some who are really underrating Tanev's impact on our D. He won't have to play quite as many minutes here, and he will become a fan favorite in no time. He puts it all out there every shift, and drags his teammates into the battle.

[VilleN]

Every Canucks fan I’ve spoken to is very pissed that we got him, so I’m going to wait and see how he pans out.

Also, what is the net loss of picks over Treliving’s tenure? I don’t think it is as bad as has been suggested.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Every Canucks fan I’ve spoken to is very pissed that we got him, so I’m going to wait and see how he pans out.

Also, what is the net loss of picks over Treliving’s tenure? I don’t think it is as bad as has been suggested.

Treliving’s problem, much like Darryl, is undervaluing 2nd round picks.

Kuznetzov is the first 2nd round pick the team has made since 2016.

After taking Kylington/Andersson in 2015, we took Dube and Parsons in 2016.

Brad is good at drafting 2nd round picks. We’ve been unable to add at least three prospects of Andersson/Dube/Parsons potential because we HAD to have Travis Hamonic and Curtis Lazar.

Three prospects. That’s a whole line’s worth of talent.

They should not be trading 1st and 2nd round picks unless they enter the season as an obvious top-10 contending team.

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Treliving’s problem, much like Darryl, is undervaluing 2nd round picks.

Kuznetzov is the first 2nd round pick the team has made since 2016.

After taking Kylington/Andersson in 2015, we took Dube and Parsons in 2016.

Brad is good at drafting 2nd round picks. We’ve been unable to add at least three prospects of Andersson/Dube/Parsons potential because we HAD to have Travis Hamonic and Curtis Lazar.

Three prospects. That’s a whole line’s worth of talent.

They should not be trading 1st and 2nd round picks unless they enter the season as an obvious top-10 contending team.

Let's look at it a little more holistically. For every Dube, Kylington, or Andersson you also have a Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Patrick Sieloff, Marcus Granlund, or Tyler Wotherspoon. Yes, Brad and his team have drafted pretty well, however the draft is still a game of chance. He has recognized the probability of a 2nd rounder exceeding replacement level, and I think he has made pretty good trades in general. At the time people were pretty surprised that Hamonic only cost a first and a couple 2nd rounders, given that he was expected to be a top defenseman. Since the trade if he performed as Dougie Hamilton has in Carolina we wouldn't be complaining about the deal. People bag on Brad Treliving, but he comes as a packaged deal - both what you love and hate about him.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Plaedo

Let's look at it a little more holistically. For every Dube, Kylington, or Andersson you also have a Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Patrick Sieloff, Marcus Granlund, or Tyler Wotherspoon. Yes, Brad and his team have drafted pretty well, however the draft is still a game of chance. He has recognized the probability of a 2nd rounder exceeding replacement level, and I think he has made pretty good trades in general. At the time people were pretty surprised that Hamonic only cost a first and a couple 2nd rounders, given that he was expected to be a top defenseman. Since the trade if he performed as Dougie Hamilton has in Carolina we wouldn't be complaining about the deal. People bag on Brad Treliving, but he comes as a packaged deal - both what you love and hate about him.

If anything, Tre just has bad luck, but nobody was complaining when he got Hamilton, very few were complaining about Hamonic, and I was shocked at how many people were happy about getting Elliott, and then Smith. Not many fans thought these were moves that wouldn’t work out, but Tre got the flack when they went south. Same with his signings of Brouwer and Neal-we all thought those guys would bring us up to another level, but they didn’t.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Sandman

If anything, Tre just has bad luck, but nobody was complaining when he got Hamilton, very few were complaining about Hamonic, and I was shocked at how many people were happy about getting Elliott, and then Smith. Not many fans thought these were moves that wouldn’t work out, but Tre got the flack when they went south. Same with his signings of Brouwer and Neal-we all thought those guys would bring us up to another level, but they didn’t.

Too much trust in Tre's UFA signings?

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Too much trust in Tre's UFA signings?

Not sure what you’re getting at, but the vast majority of fans were extatic when Tre signed Neal-many thought it made us a contender. Getting Neal was a coup, as was the Brouwer signing, as both were near the top of the free agent list in thier respective years.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Not sure what you’re getting at, but the vast majority of fans were extatic when Tre signed Neal-many thought it made us a contender. Getting Neal was a coup, as was the Brouwer signing, as both were near the top of the free agent list in thier respective years.

I feel like you are more endearing toward the signings. I remember the vast majority were ok with the Neal signing but were worried about the money and term. Elliott and Smith were trade then signings so we gave up assets too. Also, most hated the Brouwer signing... most with hockey sense anyways.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I feel like you are more endearing toward the signings. I remember the vast majority were ok with the Neal signing but were worried about the money and term. Elliott and Smith were trade then signings so we gave up assets too. Also, most hated the Brouwer signing... most with hockey sense anyways.

I agree that there were concerns amongst fans, but I feel like the Neal, Smith, and Elliott acquisitions were met with large scale positivity. Perhaps less so when it comes to Brouwer. I was really surprised at how well the goalies were received, because I hated both of them.

[1qqaaz]

I hated all four of those acquisitions, and I also hate the Tanev/Markstrom signings.

For what it's worth, I think the Tanev signing is better than the Neal/Brouwer signings.
Barring injury, his floor is much higher. Despite his obvious regression.

And I love the Kinnvall signing. Gotta give the pro scouts credit for finding these gems that most of us had never heard of.

[Sandman]

I like Tanev a lot, I think he's going to elevate our D corps. I have chosen to be positive when it comes to Markstrom-the fact that he signed with us is a coup in itself, when you consider how many teams were after him, but I have never been a fan of his. I said on this board before we acquired him that we would regret signing him before long, and I was kinda chastized for saying so, but he's a guy who's been mediocre his whole career until last year. Like I said, I've chosen to take a wait-and-see approach there.

Tre paid too much for Brouwer and Neal, but that's what happens on FA day. Brouwer was just coming off a fantastic playoffs with St.Louis, and I thought Neal would bounce back on our team, so I was good with those two, but I hated it when Tre picked up both Elliott and Smith.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Markstrom has been very good for the past 2 years or so, one of the best in the league. He didn't just become a decent goalie last year.

Many times when you sign a very sought after UFA (in this case, one of the top), you're going to overpay and give out too many years. Gotta bite the bullet. You just hope the first 3,4 years are worth it.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Markstrom has been very good for the past 2 years or so, one of the best in the league. He didn't just become a decent goalie last year.

Many times when you sign a very sought after UFA (in this case, one of the top), you're going to overpay and give out too many years. Gotta bite the bullet. You just hope the first 3,4 years are worth it.

I agree-FA day means the big ticket players get overpaid. Like I said, it was a coup to get this guy when he was being pursued by so many teams. And believe me, I do hope he's worth it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Too much trust in Tre's UFA signings?

The responsibility lies with the players to live up to their expectations, IMO.

If a GM signs a player that has consistently been one thing, and that player shows up and plays at a level below that, is that the GM's fault or the player's fault.

If the GM is hoping for something that the player can't be, well that's on the GM. But if you sign a guy that has been a consistent 25 goal scorer for 10 years, and he walks in and plays like a replacement player, for me, that's on the player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I hated all four of those acquisitions, and I also hate the Tanev/Markstrom signings.

For what it's worth, I think the Tanev signing is better than the Neal/Brouwer signings.
Barring injury, his floor is much higher. Despite his obvious regression.

And I love the Kinnvall signing. Gotta give the pro scouts credit for finding these gems that most of us had never heard of.

Well, if you hate every signing, you're going to be right sometimes, because some won't work out.

Hating the Markstrom signing is bizarre, because he is one of the best goalies in the league. How is acquiring an elite player at his position something to hate?

I can understand hating the contract, which I think is the issue here. You hate every UFA signing because the contracts are larger and/or longer than you would like. But if you hate every one, the problem is likely that your expectations are off.

Same is true for Tanev. He is a really solid player. I can see hating the contract, but that's the only problem.

Which explains why you love the Kinnvall signing - he's cheap. Well yeah, because he isn't yet an NHL player. He might become one, but he isn't yet. Tanev is an NHL defenseman. Markstrom is an (elite) NHL goalie.

But let's hate adding NHL caliber players, and rejoice in signing prospects. For me, I like both.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The responsibility lies with the players to live up to their expectations, IMO.

If a GM signs a player that has consistently been one thing, and that player shows up and plays at a level below that, is that the GM's fault or the player's fault.

If the GM is hoping for something that the player can't be, well that's on the GM. But if you sign a guy that has been a consistent 25 goal scorer for 10 years, and he walks in and plays like a replacement player, for me, that's on the player.

To an extent sure.

But pro scouting staffs should be responsible for an awareness of the player's likelihood to dive in performance as well.

- Age curve
- Circumstances (moving from Crosby to stiffs for linemates)

and then other issues like how they are as teammates etc.

Both Neal and Brouwer were at an age that you have concerns ... and neither were that helpful in the room (Brouwer dismissive about his not producing, Neal a tire fire from most reports).

Treliving signing two 30 year olds this off season comes with risk on the decline, and it wouldn't necessarily be Tanev's fault if he didn't live up to his contract (or career averages) at age 34.

[Vinny01]

Hating the Markstrom signing is very bizarre to me. The Panthers gave Bob 10.5x7 last year and the Flames got the top goalie on a 6x6 deal. Many goalies maintain their starter level of play into their mid-30’s

Markstrom is the 9th highest paid goalie next year and finished 4th in Vezina voting. He was a highly touted prospect who many thought would go in the first round d but slipped to the 2nd. He has proven over the last 2-3 years to be living up to his potential while being the Canucks MVP.

I don’t see it as an overpay at all and think that is a good UFA signing. I love the deal and so happy we got the player.

[Itse]

Brouwer and Neal were also more superfluous signings, and as such not as much worth the risk. We weren't in desperate need of forwards, although we could certainly have used a physical top 6 wingers these last years.

Signing Markström addresses a need on top of possibly elevating this team to a higher tier.

[ForeverFlameFan]

No Kinvall news, leaving unsatisfied