"Car kills counter protestor" and not a peep from the guys who said Obama wouldn't call a spade a spade and mention Islamic terrorism by name. That was a terrorist attack and nobody will call it that.
Hope you're not talking about me because I made basically this exact point already. Though, there is one fundamental difference. There have been now a couple of different vehicular attacks by the right, and a handful by jihadists in Europe. The former are targeted - one against Muslims standing outside a mosque, the other against BLM counter-protesters. They're not random in the way jihadist attacks are. The guy who drove a truck through a crowd of people in Nice was basically indifferent as to who his victims were. He'd have been just as happy killing me or you instead of someone in that crowd. In the case of the far right attackers, they want very specific groups of people dead... it's almost a lynching. I'm not saying that one is better or worse than the other, but it's a difference in tactics that's important. The type of vehicle attack from yesterday is probably much more easily defended against if you plan for it.
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petty shocked at what happened to be honest... first with the whole idea of the march and then the aftermath of the attack.
American has always had this undercurrent with issues of race, the election of Obama exacerbated it and Trump fomented it... America needs a statesman to bring American together in this time of chaos, someone that can dial down the rhetoric...
Obama had an incredible speech in Philadelphia, where he spoke quite openly on race...Following the publication of sermons put out by his former pastor, Rev. Wright, who used inflammatory remarks towards White America. If you haven't watched it you should...It speaks of the complexity of America's racial divide while condemning those that seek to divide while also understanding that it is coming from a place that can't simply be reversed nor ignored.
Trump needs to be the President for all Americans... unfortunately, he's shown no ability, to this point, to create unity through offering an outstretched hand...
Lincoln spoke eloquently following the Civil War, a war that so divisive that it divided the US, in an effort to put aside differences.
“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”
So it is not only possible, it is urgently required...
1. Some Whites believe they are losing Rights, but these people are fighting for the status quo which is clearly skewed in favor of Whites. They fight equality, because equality means losing a little bit to give to those with less advantages. I don't view that as losing Rights, but balancing to favor Whites less. This is similar to the "Christian Oppression" crap, allowing other religions equal footing is oppression in their minds, because they believe their religion deserves higher standing. For many, it's an issue of White Supremacy, because they view minorities as lesser people.
2. But there are a few issues that go farther. Like quotas. Quotas just upset people. For example if a law school has 100 spots and the white guy finishes 101 overall regardless of minority then it's still favoring white guys less but he's has to accept it. But if he's 91st overall but can't get in because they have to let in 20 minorities/low income/women/whatever then he will think he's lost rights. Another issue is that grades is not the only factor. There's GPA and test scores and volunteering and work experience and personality and quotas that make the admission process very subjective and yes if there were no quotas the selector would be very biased.
So for people who believe in #1, that's racism. But for people who believe in #2, that's more of a legitimate beef. The playing field should be equal, and equal means white lose some advantages. But it should not be skewed to far that way.
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
There are surely not tens of millions of people who are prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with guys carrying swastika flags. These guys are a vanishing minority. There is a larger component of the US public, though, who aren't this extreme but still hold views that are concerningly steeped in nationalism and xenophobia.
Yes, despite so much hand-wringing and concern paid to the liberal/coastal elites ignoring the grievances and economic misfortunes of middle America, the latest and best polls on Trump's victory and supporters actually do suggest just a terrifyingly large number of bigots in various guises led him to victory.
I'm as guilty as anyone of rationalizing/white-washing a grotesque element of US society, but bigotry is huge in the US and needs to be addressed.
Because ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Well........... would you call the anti - protest a success? If making them go away is the goal it was a huge fail.
David Duke was there. When they let him talk on MSNBC the caption on the bottom of the screen read GRAND WIZARD DAVID DUKE. Grand Wizard? In 2017. The last thing we should do with these people is take them seriously. Let them take their tiki torches and chant at confederate statues. Who cares? They need to be ignored, and maybe sometimes mocked.
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Well if you were expecting leadership from the White House well...
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Jenna JohnsonVerified account @wpjenna 4h4 hours ago
At 12:32am, the White House finally emailed reporters with the president's schedule for today: "No public events scheduled."
...and if you thought Bannon and co weren't going to be driving the bus on this one well...
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Gabriel ShermanVerified account @gabrielsherman 2h2 hours ago
When I asked senior WH official why Trump didn't condemn Cville Nazis, he said: "What about the leftist mob. Just as violent if not more so"
...so yeah this is only going to get worse. Hopefully at the next press briefing someone points out the famous "What the hell do you have to lose?" quip Trump made to black voters, because the answer appears to be a lot.
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I'm as guilty as anyone of rationalizing/white-washing a grotesque element of US society, but bigotry is huge in the US and needs to be addressed.
But at the same time, let's not write all of those people off as irredeemable neo-nazis. There aren't that many neo-nazis. The south isn't some bastion of the KKK where everyone goes home after work and dons a white sheet while lighting up a torch. Someone made this comparison pretty aptly yesterday by posting this protest next to the Atlanta edition of the women's march.
If you think about it like a sort of venn graph, there's a big circle of "right wing", and a smaller circle within that that are anti-immigration, and a smaller circle within that that think racial differences are important in determining what type of person someone is, and a smaller circle within that think certain races are in some way more or less capable than others, and a smaller circle within that who think Hitler had some good ideas, and a smaller circle within that who are wiling to undertake violence in support of their perceived racial superiority.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Well........... would you call the anti - protest a success? If making them go away is the goal it was a huge fail.
David Duke was there. When they let him talk on MSNBC the caption on the bottom of the screen read GRAND WIZARD DAVID DUKE. Grand Wizard? In 2017. The last thing we should do with these people is take them seriously. Let them take their tiki torches and chant at confederate statues. Who cares? They need to be ignored, and maybe sometimes mocked.
Well, they did shut down the rally before it started. This planned rally was making national news more than a week ago before any counter protesters were involved, so to say it would have been ignored if not for the counter protesters is not accurate.
When the point of a rally is to intimidate and eliminate a certain point of a population, I think people are well within their rights to stand up to that behaviour. Especially, considering they brought in people from across the country to make these statements in a city that overwhelmingly rejects any of those thoughts.
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I would think that a quote like that requires a name attached though.
Stephen Miller, Sebastian Gorka, Stephen Bannon, you could take your pick of one of the three and be right (but it's likely Miller as he's the only one in NJ at the moment)
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
You're vastly underestimating the number of white people in America that support this ideology both loudly and quietly, and unfortunately the loudest getting louder makes the quiet get louder.
2. But there are a few issues that go farther. Like quotas. Quotas just upset people. For example if a law school has 100 spots and the white guy finishes 101 overall regardless of minority then it's still favoring white guys less but he's has to accept it. But if he's 91st overall but can't get in because they have to let in 20 minorities/low income/women/whatever then he will think he's lost rights. Another issue is that grades is not the only factor. There's GPA and test scores and volunteering and work experience and personality and quotas that make the admission process very subjective and yes if there were no quotas the selector would be very biased.
I agree with that. There is a belief among many minorities and whites that all white people are on equal footing. It's not the case at all. There are "colonial stock" whites whose ancestors basically acquired free land and their wealth can be traced back to that (and in the Southern U.S., to slavery). Then there are white people who came over relatively recently with virtually nothing and are now looked upon like "they" did something wrong simply because of their skin colour. Now things like "affirmative action" (or in Canada the more euphemistically named "equal opportunity employment") prevent some white people from getting opportunities that they are qualified for.
I think it's simply lazy to classify people based on skin colour. I am willing to bet if all interviews for school and employment were done blindly, there would be a natural and fair equalization anyway.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Im saying that i lived there 11 years so i dont need a gofund or whatever to go experience what happens there. I was there, I saw it, right in the heart of Appalachia. I lived in it which allows me a bit more knowledge than someone who has not. I saw first hand that minorities still run into bigotry, never said anything different. I also never said i can speak for anyone else, but nice obfuscation once again.
You have been trying to minimize the extent of racism in America, and I'm calling you out on it, spin that however you want. A lot of people consider trump to be racist, he won the presidency, while that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who voted for him is a racist, it means that it wasn't a dealbreaker for the ones who thought he was a racist and voted for him anyways. That acceptance of intolerance is enough to suggest that racism is a lot bigger of a problem than you are trying to make it out to be.
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Ooooh. You got me dude...well at least on a typo. Look where the comma was placed and ask yourself "did he miss hitting one more zero or did he miss a simple math equation" You decide.
The typo is irrelevant, pointed it out because it was worth mentioning. 35k or 350k racists isn't an insignificant problem no matter how bad you want to believe it is.
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Petty insult? That you live in a different reality from me? If thats an insult to you, you may need to step away from debating. Cause that is simply a truth if what you write on this board are your actual beliefs.
It's your opinion. No sense trying to twist your original statement into something that is politically correct.
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And I am more than confident in what I post. I have no idea what "facts" I dont have straight but it really doesn't matter coming from you as you will just move the goalposts and make things up anyhow. You are the master of it.
Just my opinion I guess, generally people who are confident in and can back up their arguments generally don't have to resort to petty insults, have you ever heard the saying "confidence is quiet, insecurities are loud?"
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Also, if what I post so outrages you, you can feel free to just ignore it, as I also can. Instead of getting "rick rolled", I get "iggy oi'd", which is as much my fault as yours.
If you or anyone else posts something I disagree with and feel it is manipulative or misleading, I will respond to it. I hope you can get over it.
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Back to the actual events though...
Welcome back
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Nothing occurred overnight because of the curfew, which brings me back to one of the original points. If no one opposed them and just let them march to the statue so they could stand around yelling for no one but themselves to hear...a lot of damage and carnage could have been avoided. The media wouldn't bother covering for a second so the attention whores would be bereft of what they crave so much. I think there is a lesson in that moving forward.
Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, these movements grow by preying on the vulnerable to strengthen their numbers, if there is no voice opposing these clowns they are able to grow freely. Movements like this gain momentum when they are left uninterrupted. For a long time the states ignored those groups in the Middle East who preached hatred against them, so did the government's who harboured those groups. this didn't make the problem go away, it made it a bigger problem.
Last edited by iggy_oi; 08-13-2017 at 09:39 AM.
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1. Some Whites believe they are losing Rights, but these people are fighting for the status quo which is clearly skewed in favor of Whites. They fight equality, because equality means losing a little bit to give to those with less advantages. I don't view that as losing Rights, but balancing to favor Whites less. This is similar to the "Christian Oppression" crap, allowing other religions equal footing is oppression in their minds, because they believe their religion deserves higher standing. For many, it's an issue of White Supremacy, because they view minorities as lesser people.
2. But there are a few issues that go farther. Like quotas. Quotas just upset people. For example if a law school has 100 spots and the white guy finishes 101 overall regardless of minority then it's still favoring white guys less but he's has to accept it. But if he's 91st overall but can't get in because they have to let in 20 minorities/low income/women/whatever then he will think he's lost rights. Another issue is that grades is not the only factor. There's GPA and test scores and volunteering and work experience and personality and quotas that make the admission process very subjective and yes if there were no quotas the selector would be very biased.
So for people who believe in #1, that's racism. But for people who believe in #2, that's more of a legitimate beef. The playing field should be equal, and equal means white lose some advantages. But it should not be skewed to far that way.
Great points as usual, girlysports. Somebody finally cutting to the heart of these protests and what is really going on here: a difference of opinion on the merits of affirmative action.
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It was clear from word go that it wasn't a guy who panicked and it has been interesting watching some people twist themselves up trying to defend him. Funny how benefit of the doubt works for some people and not others.
Yep. Clearly not a violent leftist mob either...videos show cars being let through without an issue. No violence in that mob until the alt-right asshat plows into them. And still no violence.
I don't expect an administration full of, quite frankly, racists to condemn this in the way it needs to be condemned...not holding my breath on that is for sure. There are some GOP condemning the administration but at the end of the day tmost will fall in line. I'll tell you what though, this is the type of stuff that will start to cause a few more party divisions.
Well, they did shut down the rally before it started. This planned rally was making national news more than a week ago before any counter protesters were involved, so to say it would have been ignored if not for the counter protesters is not accurate.
When the point of a rally is to intimidate and eliminate a certain point of a population, I think people are well within their rights to stand up to that behaviour. Especially, considering they brought in people from across the country to make these statements in a city that overwhelmingly rejects any of those thoughts.
Sure they are well within their rights to stand up. I just don't think it's the right play. These anti - protesters or is it counter protesters? are the opposite of what they think they are. (I only watch fake news MSNBC and CNN)
But at the same time, let's not write all of those people off as irredeemable neo-nazis. There aren't that many neo-nazis. The south isn't some bastion of the KKK where everyone goes home after work and dons a white sheet while lighting up a torch. Someone made this comparison pretty aptly yesterday by posting this protest next to the Atlanta edition of the women's march.
If you think about it like a sort of venn graph, there's a big circle of "right wing", and a smaller circle within that that are anti-immigration, and a smaller circle within that that think racial differences are important in determining what type of person someone is, and a smaller circle within that think certain races are in some way more or less capable than others, and a smaller circle within that who think Hitler had some good ideas, and a smaller circle within that who are wiling to undertake violence in support of their perceived racial superiority.
I think you've missed the point entirely. There weren't 10 million nazi's in Germany in 1929.
There is a political party that has routinely fomented racial opposition within the country for going on 50 years. There are 2, maybe 3 generations of American voters who have been primed to accept the idea that disenfranchising minorities is an ethical and sound political policy.
You posted that comment from stormfront about how Trump not saying nazis is a win for them. He's legitimized that there are equal and opposing sides in a race war. If there has been one consistent narrative from the Trump Administration's first 6 months it has been a complete lack of interest in addressing anti-antisemitism and racism. Unapologetic neo-nazi's work in the white house.
You've completely lost the forest for the trees in your attempts to educate us all on nuance. The GOP does not get the benefit of the doubt anymore, and neither does the Trump administration.
You can play the wide brush painting game if you'd like but I can tell you within academic circles among historians there is serious, serious consternation about how to most appropriately compare Weimar Germany and contemporary US politics to the public and the role of historians to make those comparisons publicly.
The problem isn't that there may only be a couple hundred thousand 'true' Nazis in America, the problem is there is a mainstream political apparatus courting, developing and multiplying their message and voters. A group of nazi's just organized a torch burning rally
According to the ADL, anti-semetic violence, intimidation and vandalism was up 86% in the first quarter of this year, after rising nearly 40% in 2016.
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In July 2017, the Albemarle Charlottesville Historical Society invited members of the press to a private conference to discuss a sensitive pair of items from the organization’s collection: a pair of robes that might have originally belonged to founding members of the local Ku Klux Klan, established near Thomas Jefferson’s tomb in 1921.
The robes, which the society said were donated in 1993, drew attention when local activists and scholars started asking about them. “It’s probably some old respectable family name which adorns a current Charlottesville building, street or park,” speculated one of the scholars who’d requested more detail on the robes, according to Charlottesville’s Daily Progress. But Steven Meeks, the society’s president, declined to reveal who donated the artifacts. “I will tell you this much,” Meeks said to the newspaper, “neither one of them was a prominent person in the Charlottesville community.”
The tussle over revealing the identities of long-ago Klansmen in Charlottesville, the potential shame to their living relatives or descendants, feels itself like an artifact of history at this moment, when people unadorned by masks or hoods are marching for white supremacy openly on the city’s streets and lawns. It hearkens back to a time when the likes of the Klan achieved terror partially through a uniform that often obscured the face of its wearer. “Anonymity wasn’t quite the point,” as Alison Kinney pointed out in The New Republic. And indeed, in many places, for much of the Klan's history, members marched openly. “While the hoods could assure their wearers’ personal anonymity, their force came from declaring membership in a safe, privileged identity that was anything but secret.” But where open racism was less acceptable, the hood offered a useful disguise. We could be anywhere, the uniform warned. We could be your neighbors.
But the images we saw in Charlottesville today and yesterday convey an entirely different sort of threat. They draw their menace not from what is there—mostly, young white men in polos and T-shirts goofily brandishing tiki torches—but from what isn’t: the masks, the hoods, the secrecy that could at least imply a sort of shame. We used to whisper these thoughts, the new white supremacists suggest. But now we can say them out loud. The “Unite the Right” rally wasn’t intended to be a Klan rally at all. It was a pride march.
The shameless return of white supremacy into America’s public spaces seems to be happening by degrees, and quickly. It wasn’t until most journalists left the conference of the innocuously named “National Policy Institute” in November that my colleague Daniel Lombroso captured Richard Spencer leading the attendees in open Nazi salutes. Spencer’s intention—to make normal that gesture and all the sentiments that underpin it—is no more secret than the identities of his tiki torch-wielding bannermen. "I don't see myself as a marginal figure who's going to be hated by society,” Spencer said to Daniel. “I see myself as a mainstream figure.”
For the moment, you can still spot the subtle boundaries that will have shifted if Spencer and his fellow-travelers succeed. One appeared, for example, in Graeme Wood’s June 2017 Atlantic story on Spencer, when one of his associates requested anonymity: “I have a ‘normie’ [conventional] job,” the young man said, “and I don’t want to get punished for this.” How soon until that young man no longer fears the consequences of his ideas?
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The town, considered a community of the Jim Crow South back in the early 1900s, was the last in America to desegregate schools following the Supreme Court’s ruling on Brown v. Board of Education, which allowed black children to attend historically white-only schools. Despite ordering desegregation with “all deliberate speed,” in 1955, Virginia strongly resisted the ruling. Some schools even shut down in Charlottesville before finally allowing integration in 1958.
In 2015, Charlottesville was under fire for racist behavior following the violent arrest of Martese Johnson, a third-year student at the University. Johnson, a black man, was confronted by three white police officers who, after asking for identification, assumed he was holding a fake I.D.. and beat him before throwing him in cuffs. A video of the altercation went viral, sparking a nationally trending hashtag #JusticeForMartese on Twitter and bringing attention to the aggressive force law enforcement enacted on blacks in the community.
Virginia overall also has longstanding ties to the Ku Klux Klan. In a study released in 2015, researchers from Virginia Commonwealth University discovered there had been more than 2,000 KKK klaverns established in the U.S. between 1915 and 1940, 132 of which had been spread across the state of Virginia.
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To take into account underlying racial animus, McVeigh et al controlled for the counties' levels of support for George Wallace, who made an explicitly segregationist third-party presidential bid in 1968. They also controlled for the level of support for Goldwater; his run galvanized Southern support for Republicans before the 1964-66 growth in Klan chapters and so is another factor that needs to be taken into account. Finally, the study controlled for changes in counties' racial makeup (counties whose black populations grew presumably saw less growth in Republican support), their level of economic prosperity and education (since Republican support is positively correlated with income and education), and whether the county had an NAACP chapter (which could have provoked the KKK to launch a branch in response).
They conclude that having a Klan chapter present was associated with a 2 percent bigger increase in Republican support from 1960 to 1972, a 3.7 percent bigger increase from 1960 to 1980, a 4.9 percent bigger increase from 1960 to 1992, and a 3.4 percent bigger increase from 1960 to 2000.How could this have worked?
Radical social movements can exacerbate tensions in local settings while drawing attention to how movement goals align with political party agendas. Short-term movement influence on voting outcomes can endure when orientations toward the movement disrupt social ties, embedding individuals within new discussion networks that reinforce new partisan loyalties. To demonstrate this dynamic, we employ longitudinal data to show that increases in Republican voting, across several different time intervals, were most pronounced in southern counties where the Ku Klux Klan had been active in the 1960s. In an individual-level analysis of voting intent, we show that decades after the Klan declined, racial attitudes map onto party voting among southern voters, but only in counties where the Klan had been active.
We KNOW that normalizing political attitudes happens this way. The President just normalized it on a national level.
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Great points as usual, girlysports. Somebody finally cutting to the heart of these protests and what is really going on here: a difference of opinion on the merits of affirmative action.
Thank you; thank you so much. Not sure when GirlySports started these terrible takes but it's a warning for us all. While we've all known how terrible K-Pop truly is this is a sign it's actually bad for our mental health.
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