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Old 09-27-2017, 05:16 PM   #281
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Interesting that he spouts the belief that no one cares about anyone in Midfield because they are poor, but then goes to the other length and says what the city did for those in Bel-Aire and Mayfair is disgusting because they were worth so much.

I see no compelling argument there. Very little facts and an attempt to correlate to another project that he thinks is similar but doesn't share anything in common.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:22 PM   #282
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It's not that compelling.

These people do not have a lease and do not own the land. Any comparison to a group of people who do own the land is not valid.

The argument to pay them out for the lost value of their home should be solely based on promises made by the city which influenced decision making and therefore cost people money.
Agreed. If they paid $20k to people living in Mount Royal, who didn't own the land or have a lease, those Mount Royal residents would have done rather well. Also, if the Mayfair/Bel Aire compensation seems a bit shady and undeserved (which it does), this does not justify offering a similar deal to the residents of Midfield.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:05 PM   #283
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Councillors approved the borrowing of $13 million to buy houses at market value, with the hope of selling them later at a profit.
What happened with these homes? Did the city later sell them for a profit? If they did, it sounds like council made the right decision.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:38 PM   #284
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Don Braid of the Herald chimes in:

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-midfield-park

He draws a very compelling comparison to a Glenmore/Elbow interchange situation 10 years ago.
You and I have very different definitions of the word 'compelling'.

The argument is nonsensical. Did he not understand the difference between landowners and renters?
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:41 PM   #285
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I just need to rant for a second then I'll stfu. I'm still baffled by this deal and the opinion of most people in this thread and out in the world of Calgary. I know it's only one small issue but it didn't even really register with anyone. Carra even gets re-elected. Anyway, this is not how you run a city and certainly not how it was done in the past...

https://omny.fm/shows/danielle-smith...eners-on-midfi

A past "alderman" Joanne Kerr was on the Danielle Smith show explaining how the city dealt with a private developer (Safeway) that bought the Cascade mobile home park and built Dalhousie Station. The city would not grant a development permit, would not even look at the application, until the developer, at the developer's cost, found a place for all the residents to move to, paid for all the moving costs, the rebuilding costs, decks, skirting etc, built a community center at the new park and even paid for hotels for people during the move. They even had to arrange it so people had the same neighbors. Then, and only the would the city consider an application for redevelopment. Why, because the city cares about all it's residents and blah blah blah.

Fast forward. So to answer many posts in this thread, NO, a private company that owns a trailer park in Calgary and wants to redevelop can not just chuck people out after the given period of eviction is past. Rented land with a trailer is different than rented anything else. Trailers are not mobile. They are chattels owned by people and need to be treated as such and in the past have been treated as such under mandate by the city.

And furthermore, you can't write two letters guaranteeing people a place to move their trailers and then completely disregard that letter. That's the definition of fraud. There's just no argument to be made otherwise, especially Nenshi's argument that according to a survey no one in the park wanted to move to East Hills. Was there a question on the survey that said, "Do you want to move to East Hills or have 10k and your trailer bulldozed?" Cause that's going to get you a different result I'm pretty sure.

The whole thing is just so crooked and stupid it boggles the mind. Seven years ago when Nenshi took office we could have made residents whole, bought all the trailers and developed the land to its highest and best use and we could have had all the property tax revenue, hundreds of millions over the seven lost years. Instead, we've clowned around for like ten years, given a stupid amount of notice, sent armies of counselors and advocates literally every day for three years to help people find places and not jump off bridges, and now we're going to wind up paying social services to take care of these people. And for what? So we could save a grand total of about 7 million dollars more than the 4 they've already agreed to pay people. What a bunch of dolts. I say dolts not because they made this mistake, but they, Nenshi in particular, try defending it by saying they're going above and beyond in their attempt to take care of these people. And that they were the ones that said they didn't want a new park. C'mon Man.

I also wonder how much people are going to add as a risk premium when dealing with this council in future contracts. I know I would.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:04 PM   #286
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Midfield Park residents lose their case. Must leave by February 19, 2018.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...sion-1.4440026
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:58 PM   #287
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I just need to rant for a second then I'll stfu. I'm still baffled by this deal and the opinion of most people in this thread and out in the world of Calgary. I know it's only one small issue but it didn't even really register with anyone. Carra even gets re-elected. Anyway, this is not how you run a city and certainly not how it was done in the past...

https://omny.fm/shows/danielle-smith...eners-on-midfi

A past "alderman" Joanne Kerr was on the Danielle Smith show explaining how the city dealt with a private developer (Safeway) that bought the Cascade mobile home park and built Dalhousie Station. The city would not grant a development permit, would not even look at the application, until the developer, at the developer's cost, found a place for all the residents to move to, paid for all the moving costs, the rebuilding costs, decks, skirting etc, built a community center at the new park and even paid for hotels for people during the move. They even had to arrange it so people had the same neighbors. Then, and only the would the city consider an application for redevelopment. Why, because the city cares about all it's residents and blah blah blah.

Fast forward. So to answer many posts in this thread, NO, a private company that owns a trailer park in Calgary and wants to redevelop can not just chuck people out after the given period of eviction is past. Rented land with a trailer is different than rented anything else. Trailers are not mobile. They are chattels owned by people and need to be treated as such and in the past have been treated as such under mandate by the city.

And furthermore, you can't write two letters guaranteeing people a place to move their trailers and then completely disregard that letter. That's the definition of fraud. There's just no argument to be made otherwise, especially Nenshi's argument that according to a survey no one in the park wanted to move to East Hills. Was there a question on the survey that said, "Do you want to move to East Hills or have 10k and your trailer bulldozed?" Cause that's going to get you a different result I'm pretty sure.

The whole thing is just so crooked and stupid it boggles the mind. Seven years ago when Nenshi took office we could have made residents whole, bought all the trailers and developed the land to its highest and best use and we could have had all the property tax revenue, hundreds of millions over the seven lost years. Instead, we've clowned around for like ten years, given a stupid amount of notice, sent armies of counselors and advocates literally every day for three years to help people find places and not jump off bridges, and now we're going to wind up paying social services to take care of these people. And for what? So we could save a grand total of about 7 million dollars more than the 4 they've already agreed to pay people. What a bunch of dolts. I say dolts not because they made this mistake, but they, Nenshi in particular, try defending it by saying they're going above and beyond in their attempt to take care of these people. And that they were the ones that said they didn't want a new park. C'mon Man.

I also wonder how much people are going to add as a risk premium when dealing with this council in future contracts. I know I would.
Thank you for this. It has been painful to see how the city has treated these people my family included. Another resident committed suicide last night and every is feeling really down today. Even the judge didn't believe what the city did was right but it was not against the law. Just cold. All while they spend millions to study the Olympics and take trips abroad to Korea to sip champagne and hob knob with the IOC. Most of the people left will have to either move in with family or those that I are alone will be living at the Mustard Seed since they will still be paying a mortgage on a trailer they no longer have.

I don't know how the Mayor and the rest of council sleep at night.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:27 AM   #288
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Thank you for this. It has been painful to see how the city has treated these people my family included. Another resident committed suicide last night and every is feeling really down today. Even the judge didn't believe what the city did was right but it was not against the law. Just cold. All while they spend millions to study the Olympics and take trips abroad to Korea to sip champagne and hob knob with the IOC. Most of the people left will have to either move in with family or those that I are alone will be living at the Mustard Seed since they will still be paying a mortgage on a trailer they no longer have.

I don't know how the Mayor and the rest of council sleep at night.
Another resident? That's really tough to hear. How many from Midfield have committed suicide?

Have you guys pushed this to the media or to have the media cover the funeral?
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:31 AM   #289
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Thank you for this. It has been painful to see how the city has treated these people my family included. Another resident committed suicide last night and every is feeling really down today. Even the judge didn't believe what the city did was right but it was not against the law. Just cold. All while they spend millions to study the Olympics and take trips abroad to Korea to sip champagne and hob knob with the IOC. Most of the people left will have to either move in with family or those that I are alone will be living at the Mustard Seed since they will still be paying a mortgage on a trailer they no longer have.

I don't know how the Mayor and the rest of council sleep at night.
I think your perspective might be clouded by emotions

The reason that most posters have no problem with it is that the city gave everyone several years notice that their leases would terminate.

There is no world in which that isn't reasonable.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:19 AM   #290
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I think your perspective might be clouded by emotions

The reason that most posters have no problem with it is that the city gave everyone several years notice that their leases would terminate.

There is no world in which that isn't reasonable.
Do you think that this was the best course of action for the city to take? Not just the fairest, but the wisest? For all citizens, not just these residents?
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:31 AM   #291
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Do you think that this was the best course of action for the city to take? Not just the fairest, but the wisest? For all citizens, not just these residents?
I think the city should have followed the law to the letter. Which would mean not offering them any compensation.

They were tenants, not landowners.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:16 AM   #292
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Do you think that this was the best course of action for the city to take? Not just the fairest, but the wisest? For all citizens, not just these residents?
The wisest course of action for all citizens would've been to kick them out 5 years ago with no compensation (arguably, northcrunk wouldn't be so cranky either cuz then his family wouldn't have bought it).

But alas, that didn't happen. This is the next best thing.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:56 AM   #293
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Should probably get mad at the banks too, who gave out the high risk mortgage to begin with and now won't do anything for the people. After all, they are in it for the profit, so surely the city aren't the only bad boys here.
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:12 PM   #294
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Another resident? That's really tough to hear. How many from Midfield have committed suicide?

Have you guys pushed this to the media or to have the media cover the funeral?
The media doesn't cover suicides and I'm not sure the families would want it. The number is around 20 or so and there is some depressed people there. I'm sure we will see at least 1 or 2 folks have to be forced out by police as they are old and stubborn and have no reason to care anymore.

A guy called into QR770 yesterday from Langdon and offered for anyone to come live with him which was really nice but I'll bring my family to stay with me if they need but they are still going to have a debt and no home which sucks. 50k might seem like nothing to the city but it means a lot to people who don't have a lot to begin with.
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:34 PM   #295
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Wait, are you saying there's been around 20 suicides in this trailer park?
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:55 PM   #296
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Wait, are you saying there's been around 20 suicides in this trailer park?
You'd think the media would make an exception and report an area that has a suicide rate a few hundred times higher than the national average since that would be the story and they wouldn't have to list any names or anything.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:27 PM   #297
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These citizens have had 9 years of frozen rent well below market price, 3 years of eviction notice, 10k in tentant closure payment and up to 10k in trailer moving costs. As far as I can tell, none of this was/is required by city.

My sympathy has run out for the tenants of midfield park.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:39 PM   #298
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The wisest course of action for all citizens would've been to kick them out 5 years ago with no compensation (arguably, northcrunk wouldn't be so cranky either cuz then his family wouldn't have bought it).

But alas, that didn't happen. This is the next best thing.
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I think the city should have followed the law to the letter. Which would mean not offering them any compensation.

They were tenants, not landowners.
I don't even really disagree with this. Except that the city has higher standards to maintain than those required by the letter of the law. Historically city counsil required a private landlord to fully compensate, actually over compensate people in the Dalhousie trailer park before they would allow any new development on the land that is now Dalhousie Station. More recently the city promised in writing to move the residents of midfield. And even more recently they made loud and clear verbal promises to take care of these residents even if there was no new trailer park to go to. And as an indication of this particular law's irrelevance the city has gone way farther beyond any legal requirement for eviction notice...in fact more than ten times longer than what is required by law. All of this tells me that you're missing the point. We've decided that people require compensation for their property when in sits on city owned land. And it is not just so these individuals are compensated.

The biggest reason to compensate properly is to protect all the other citizens of this city. Here is what we all have lost over this ######ed deal. No less than ten years of highest and best use property tax. Psychologist, life coach and counselor fees, on going for three years. Two security guard vehicles running 24 hrs a day for a year. Fencing and lighting. Ten years of maintenance. Social services for residents in need. Various studies and time spent in city counsil. About 150 residents who no longer live and spend money in Calgary. And without a doubt, credibility which will certainly reflect in future private contracting with the city of Calgary.

What do you think the tax bill alone is worth? 160 houses plus commercial space. My guess is a hundred million over ten years. And for exactly what? To save about 5-6 million over and above the 3-4 we've already paid these people. We've managed to make exactly no one happy. The legal victory we've achieved is an insult to the intelligence of every single person in this city.

What we've actually witnessed is exactly why city of Calgary requires higher standards than that which is offered by laws that apply well to private land holders. Our counsil members need to get votes to keep their job. They're playing good cop bad cop. They want to be the ones looking out for people and caring for every resident. But they also need to be the ones who spend wisely and keep property tax increases to a minimum. Here is a perfect example of why it's not fair to do both. You can watch Carra switch from good cop when he was trying to get elected and trying to let everyone know that he was their advocate and if you voted for him he would be your voice at city all. He'd look out for you. And bad cop now that he's elected. It's way easier to not pay these people 6 million bucks than it is to cut 6 million bucks out of a budget that couldn't possibly spare it.

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Old 12-09-2017, 03:28 PM   #299
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What do you think the tax bill alone is worth? 160 houses plus commercial space. My guess is a hundred million over ten years.
That is one hell of a valuation. Even dealing with million dollar homes you'd need close to a billion dollars worth of commercial space to get that.

If you got even a tenth of that over ten years it would be impressive, with some lightning quick development at that.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:12 PM   #300
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That is one hell of a valuation. Even dealing with million dollar homes you'd need close to a billion dollars worth of commercial space to get that.

If you got even a tenth of that over ten years it would be impressive, with some lightning quick development at that.
My bad. I added a zero in my head. Yes. Ten million not a hundred. The lightning quick doesn't matter though cause it will always be ten years behind.
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